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and so start the same rubbish comments as before on FB now... Will this never end...
 
Brexit court defeat for UK government upload_2016-11-3_13-49-53 - EletriciansForums.net


Brexit court defeat for UK government upload_2016-11-3_13-47-55 - EletriciansForums.net
 
All the court case was about, is whether the Prime Minister can invoke article 50 without first obtaining Parliment's approval.
They must have known before hand that they would require approval.
Could of had the debate ages ago.
 
The public vote could have been made binding in law and have included triggering article 50.
The Government decided to not do that and the vote was held as an indication of the publics wishes.
The politics and outright lies on both sides were a complete disgrace. The information or lack of it made the vote worthless.
What matters now is that the terms of impkementing that vote are understood and decided upon. Parliament is the right plsce for that and this judgement supports that.
Quite why it didn't go straight to the supreme court is beyond me. Whatever was decided today was going to be appealed anyway.
 
They did know before hand but the then Government led by Cameron never expected to lose initially so this wouldn't have been an issue, the argument is that bringing this to the high courts is making a mockery of the will of the people, the Government made it clear at the start of the campaign that the will of the people will be honoured and this is not for a parlimentary decision, in fact this was clearly stated on the Pro-Remain leaflet that every household received so this is why there is an argument, now because Leave won it became a decision excluding the parliments will, it means they should not be able to challenge it which the actual bexit decision hasn't been, but in order to leave which we have to trigger article 50 so its part of the process that has been deemed the will of the public already. The remoaners are trying to use every tactic going to delay and block Brexit and this been one of them.

Because the only way we can formally leave the EU is by triggering article 50 then because they have no actual say on the result they wish to shackle a ball and chain to the process, if this decision was to be held then its highly likely we would not leave the EU because we would have to reveal our hand to parliment and once everyone has agreed to it article 50 would be triggered only if the parlimentary conditions are met... in comes Brussels who see what we want and need to trigger the article and they just turn around and say we are not agreeing to that deal, so back to the table and yet more delays, the EU doesn't want us to go or to lose our contributions so they will play the exact tactics that the remoaners are doing to drag this out, this then becomes a catch 22 to leaving, its been done on purpose and makes a mockery of democracy.

As this was a high court decision it will now go to the supreme court on appeal who will have to take into account everything that the high court can overlook, this includes the wording on the leaflets, the impact such a decision could have on honouring the publics will of a Brexit and ensuring the publics will is carried through, its clear this decision will almost certainly damage the actual process of leaving and effect both the duration and what we could acheive in a deal so its very unlikely the Supreme Court will carry the verdict through but instead overrule it.

I have people on my FB with big smiley faces saying Brexit has been stopped, I have sadfully ;) had to inform them this is a decision on the actual terms of triggering article 50 and not the result of the referendum.
 
Easy solution. Hold another referendum with the required legislation in place. It could be argued that the original referendum that was missing that legislation because the government never consider it would be a vote to leave wasn't a valid referendum anyway.
If a vote is put to the people both potential outcomes should have been considered and allowed for.
The government failed the people in so many way.

And yes I agree Brexit isn't stopped but I now has a chance for sensible sane people to be involved in the process rather than just a PM who is now determined to ignore her own advice and make a point of triggering article 50 regardless of the consequences.
 
It was clearly printed on the Pro remain leaflet the validity of the process and crucially that this was a vote that the people decide and not parliment, given a Brexit win it is inevitable to honour the peoples will and this can only be done by triggering artical 50, so this call to the high court saying that parliment should decide on the terms of triggering artical 50 is infact an attack on democracy itself, the fact that the vote was advisary means nothing when the people were told clearly and it was also printed that it was going to honour the result, in the supreme court this is actually valuable as the printed and stated word of the government regarding the result of the referendum is legally binding regardless of the actual process of making it a legally binding process to start with.
You say hold another referendum ? ... why exactly that goes against democracy, I keep hearing that the Brexiteers were misled, funny I hear only the remainers saying this and not the brexiteers, well except for the odd drunk lad in a pub that a biased news channel pick up on. TBH the remainers as like for like the remain camp had several times the resources, access to high end figures etc etc and as it turns out it was the remain camp feeding the most misleading info' as a lot of it especially the scare stories have not come to fruition. If both remain and brexit did play a straight bat with equal funding for the campaign I would suggest Brexit would have won by a bigger margin, remember the 10million of tax payers money the government spent on a leaflet campaign before the actual campaign started where the rules limited their spend budget... even after all this they still lost, and you still get people saying the brexit was won unfairly ... yes it was won but the remain campaign were the ones breaking funding rules, getting the US president in on the act etc etc and they still lost, you really think the campaign was so misleading now from a brexit point?
 
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We have a legative process. That process was used when we joined the EU. The EU referendum was bound by legislation that enabled the result to be acted upon without further parliamentary control.
That process could have been used in this referendum. It wasn't. The vote was an indication of the peoples wish.
The brexit and remain leaflets carry no legal status (and good job to as much was lies) they are just prmises and thjreats to sway votes. They convey no legal status. Any more than the double glazing flyers I get that insist my windows must be upgraded. Just because its on a leaflet doesn't make it true or legally binding.

The fact is the Tory government botched the referendum process and now we all suffer the result of trying to workout a sensible path forwards.
Laughably the previous dire state of our economy is now what seems to have been the good times. Much like a nice war we are now in such a poor state we'll not even notice as things slip away.

As for another referendum. Why do we have General elections every 4 or 5 years? Surely if the people decide on a political direction then why ask again in 4 years? Maybe because things change? Maybe things have changed since the referendum?
Maybe things like the actual amount being in the EU costs us and gains us not being what we were told?
Maybe like the fact that we are unlikely to be able to have access to all the things we were promised be the Brexit campaign?

As many have said parliament and the government should via specialist advisors looked at the pros and cons of being in the EU and presented a case to parliament that parliament could have presented to the people.

What we got was a sham and a disgrace.
 
Everyone has an opinion on Brexit and IMHO that's what makes Britain great. Mine is : referendum held, now get on.
If some MPs see this as an opportunity to deny the will of the people I will be disappointed ... in a polite British kind of way. And come the next election I will vote accordingly :)
 
I'm getting on now and the result won't have a significant impact on me one way or another. My children all have a very concerned view of our the older generations attempt to roll back time to the good old days.
My hope if we may get an opportunity for the final say in this to be part of a general election result.
To have one or more party state the case clearly and be voted in on that mandate would be the correct route for me.

I accept the vote (ignoring the poor politics etc) now we need what that actually means.

I good example would be:

My wife and I decided a new loft conversion would be a good idea, The old loft was ok but we could do ore with the space.
We looked at the options and it seemed the right move forward. Did we just appoint a builder and go ahead?
No of course not. Having decide we wanted that we then looked at what it would cost.
The time frame involved, the implications (where would we store all the junk) and more.
That left us with a whole bunch of pros and cons to resolve.
We had to consider and allow for contingencies and the impact of those.
Only after working through those were we able to decide to move forward in an informed way.

Now we did that for a simple loft conversion. We are proposing doing less for the future of the country!
 
We have a legative process. That process was used when we joined the EU. The EU referendum was bound by legislation that enabled the result to be acted upon without further parliamentary control.
That process could have been used in this referendum. It wasn't. The vote was an indication of the peoples wish.
The brexit and remain leaflets carry no legal status (and good job to as much was lies) they are just prmises and thjreats to sway votes. They convey no legal status. Any more than the double glazing flyers I get that insist my windows must be upgraded. Just because its on a leaflet doesn't make it true or legally binding.

The fact is the Tory government botched the referendum process and now we all suffer the result of trying to workout a sensible path forwards.
Laughably the previous dire state of our economy is now what seems to have been the good times. Much like a nice war we are now in such a poor state we'll not even notice as things slip away.

As for another referendum. Why do we have General elections every 4 or 5 years? Surely if the people decide on a political direction then why ask again in 4 years? Maybe because things change? Maybe things have changed since the referendum?
Maybe things like the actual amount being in the EU costs us and gains us not being what we were told?
Maybe like the fact that we are unlikely to be able to have access to all the things we were promised be the Brexit campaign?

As many have said parliament and the government should via specialist advisors looked at the pros and cons of being in the EU and presented a case to parliament that parliament could have presented to the people.

What we got was a sham and a disgrace.

You need to look up how we actually joined the EU, you'll find we were taken into it by illegal acts of Heath not asking the public nor the parliment on whether we should join, under British law he had to do this, when he got back and announced what he had done he was questioned why he didn't consult parliment or the people, his response was 'because they would have said no!'

It is also worthy to note that it pointed out to him that he has not signed a trade deal but infact signed the UK to desolve it powers and rights and even its currency up to the EU, he said I know.

So this legal angle about parliament having a vote that was taken to the high court used legislation imposed on the UK from the EU, if we want to really play the legative process to the T then we are not legally a member of the EU as the legal formal process was not used and we were signed in by the illegal acts of one man, giving this then in reality all imposed laws and legislation from the EU are not actually legally binding but given this was all done 4decades ago and behind the curtains then we have desolved all legal processes of challenging it well I say desolved, in fact I mean the ability to legally challenge the method in which we joined the EU was quickly removed from our powers by guess who ..yes the EU. Also to note the very legistlation the parliament is using to challenge for a parlimentary vote on enacting article 50 will be scrapped following brexit (the irony).

This is how politics works and has always worked, the politicians are self interested and the man on the street is an inconvenience until they need there support.

Ok so you mention and probably refering to the brexit bus I assume in that what it said was not the actual cost as we get some back, I don't think you understand the EU process here, the EU is a wannabe superstate and to become one it needs dependency of its members and where it can, their money... what the EU does is red tapes and legislates the industries and farming etc until they can barely survive then it awards them EU funding, this gives them dependency on membership, then it prevents trade to external markets where it would provide competition to the EU so blocks our economical growth so protect its structure, this limits and slows our growth and ring fences who and how we trade... all of this comes with a cost too of which we get some back in funding , well here is the brilliance of all this - we end up paying into the EU and then part of that is diverted back to supplement certain Industries and projects and especially schooling, colleges and other higher education methods all coming with a PRO -EU message (propaganda), so in context the 350million a week stated is before we get some back but are we really getting any back if the very reason the EU funding is going to these industries and projects is down to the implemented red tape and legislation, and we have little to no say where it goes... The EU has imposed dependency and made us use our own money to support the Industries its purposely crippled, very brilliant indeed if you ask me- on a deeper level then that figure on the bus is grossly under estimated in real terms and should be higher, actually now the figure quoted on the bus will be correct by next year excluding any rebates and EU funding coming back.

I voted Brexit mainly because of what the EU is becoming and what it is doing to the UK to become that, if you want your children and/or grandkids living under a form of dictatorship where the law makers cannot be questioned or voted out then choose to remain, I on the other hand want the next few generations to find anyone making the laws that effect them accountable and for them to have the ability to remove them through democratic process, this is something that no longer can be done to the Brussel Elite and we are still a few decades off that superstate they dream off, ask yourself why all the young seem to love the EU and then ask yourself what all that EU funded money been pumped into the education system was for and I bet you have your answer (propaganda brainwashing the next gen'),

I strongly believe we are better as a nation out of the EU and I have 40yrs of evidence to prove my point, I would take the leap into the dark anyday as oppose to the been pulled further into the quicksand trap that is the EU, it has a failing currency that is on borrowed time, it has mass high levels of youth unemployment across its southern section, it has bankrupt countries that cannot be bailed out no longer, it has mass immigration that is buckling the very core values of the EU and causing it members to rebel and ignore EU policies, it has drawn up designs on taking money direct out of yours and my pocket by bringing in an EU identity number for every citizen, once that is done it leaves us open to having an EU tax implemented to every person be it on there income pension or savings... these are not scare mongering like you see with remain campaign this is reality and is or has happened, so I would appreciate it that remainers don't make sweeping statements that we were scammed, misled or cheated, many of us actually voted because know our stuff and/or researched it, Brexit is what I believe is best regardless of the shambles of the referendum campaigns by both sides, so there is an incite to why I voted the way I did, I agree in that we should never of had that vote under those terms it was introduced but it's an opportunity I know would never come by again.
 
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I'd disagree that many Brexit voters where informed and voted with knowledge. I'd say some where. I've met none who where. The vast majority fall into the the protest vote they didn't expect to make a difference or the plsin simple send the foreigner back expectation vote.
That said I'm also sure a lot of remain voters had no idea what was going on.
 
I counter your argument as you have already done for me that many remainers were not informed about the true cost of remaining in the EU and the path it was taking us, given these facts then I have more confidence that Brexit would have won by a bigger margin, I also hi-light that many remainers didn't know or understand the many negatives and the damage the EU has done already and all we heard was stronger together or better at the table, these are just sound bites but in an election they are powerful weapons as the public in general doesn't understand the core politics that they are really voting for.
 
To my mind neither side presented truthful arguments to support their cases.
The get rid of immigrants are going to be the most disappointed, though I hope the lack of WWIII will be a relief to many.
 
The vote did one thing well. It divided tge country. We now have half the country seen as racist and inward looking and the other half trying to understand how it could have happened.
That split is also a generation split with the latter being the younger generation.
Now divided I can't see anyway to reunite.
The country is damaged and will be for a generation or more.
Depending on how things develop we may see more of the young leave the UK, my 2 sons are looking at Canada as tgeir next home. They don't want to live in a country that has the views it does.
My work has involved a lot of what europe has gained for the UK and I think its been a big plus. My only regret is we never fully participated and prefered to sit on the fence trying to hedge our bets which then ensured we didn't get our full say.
As for WW3 well a Trump win now looks posssible based on the US voters looking as racist as the UK voters and I can't see Trump bringing calm to the world.
The world isn't a safer place going diwn the isolatist route. Safety has more chance when we join and work together.

I now wonder how the Brexit voters are going to feel and vote when their non white bulldog british community members aren't sent home. Even if we could close the immigration door it doesn't change the current position. And every voice so far has said immigration probably won't change much.
 

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