Comments on specification recommendation

[James_M]

Hi all,

Bit of a long post - sorry!

Am developer/client on a residential project (new block of flats) where an engineer has specified some equipment, and was hoping to get some feedback from guys on the tools if you see what I mean?.

Integrated LED spots (type not specified - to be confirmed)
Switches/Sockets/LED Dimmers - MK Logic Plus (inc. grid switches)
Panelboards & Distribution Boards - MEM Eaton
Switch & Fusegear - MEM
CU - Schneider Type A (Acti 9 Isobar), Eaton (no range specified)
RCBOs & Mini circuit breakets - Schneider iC60H, Eaton (no range specd)
Moulded Case Circuit Breakers - Schneider NS & NSX, Eaton (no range)

Doing some research the 2 areas I have some thoughts on are the integrated LED spots and the MK Logic Plus stuff. As a non spark the other areas are outside the comfort zone!

For the integrated LEDs I can't work out what the point is? Would rather just have a fitting (eg: Scolmore flameguard or similar) and a GU10 LED bulb (eg: EN-DGU005 - Aurora Enlite 5w dimmable), so if/when it goes can just change the bulb over. I have done this on a previous development but that one I was both the developer and main contractor. It was also cheaper than an integrated fitting.

Tried looking at the JCC Hybrid9 (and Enlite gear) as I thought 10 years no hassle job jobbed, but then *if* (when?) it goes wrong, it's a pain to sort it out. Also, in 10 years time, I know I can probably buy a GU10 bulb, but can I definitely get a JCC Hybrid9 replacement lamp thing (or Enlite fitting)? For some reason though the market loves integrated so maybe am missing something important here?

For the switches, I think the MK gear looks quite expensive for what it is, and the reports on quality seem to be quite negative. The MK dimmer (K1523WHILV) seems to also have issues with buzzing based on the tiny number of Amazon reviews available. They do offer a 20 year guarantee though from what I can tell on the non-dimmer stuff, and 10 on the dimmer.

On a previous job we used all varilight screwless and had no issues, so had that on the mind as it would save a bit while looking good. Their v-pro dimmer also seems to be the dogs danglies. 10 years on their gear. Hager Sollysta and the Click stuff look nice, but no LED dimmers and a bit wary of buying separate dimmer modules with different brand faceplate for when/if things go wrong.

If you have any thoughts at all, would be really welcome. The aim is to have a good quality, easy to maintain building at a sensible price.

Thanks!
James

 

[Adam W]

I see what you're saying about the LEDs, although in my experience, manufacturers change the spec of their bulbs more often than the design of the integrated units, and most if not all of the integrated units are already fire and suitably IP rated for zone 1 of a bathroom, so you can use one type of fitting throughout a property.

Personally I'd probably go for Hager final distribution switchgear; apart from a product recall a couple of years ago their stuff seems consistently OK.

Schneider MCCBs are good. I like the Square D I-Line range, but it's maybe not for everyone.

Hager also do grid switches in the Sollysta range; it's a good alternative to MK and worth having a look at.

Presumably this engineer guy had his reasons for specifying what he did, and not just going with what he thinks is the most popular?

 

[Pete999]

Hi all,

Bit of a long post - sorry!

Am developer/client on a residential project (new block of flats) where an engineer has specified some equipment, and was hoping to get some feedback from guys on the tools if you see what I mean?.

Integrated LED spots (type not specified - to be confirmed)
Switches/Sockets/LED Dimmers - MK Logic Plus (inc. grid switches)
Panelboards & Distribution Boards - MEM Eaton
Switch & Fusegear - MEM
CU - Schneider Type A (Acti 9 Isobar), Eaton (no range specified)
RCBOs & Mini circuit breakets - Schneider iC60H, Eaton (no range specd)
Moulded Case Circuit Breakers - Schneider NS & NSX, Eaton (no range)

Doing some research the 2 areas I have some thoughts on are the integrated LED spots and the MK Logic Plus stuff. As a non spark the other areas are outside the comfort zone!

For the integrated LEDs I can't work out what the point is? Would rather just have a fitting (eg: Scolmore flameguard or similar) and a GU10 LED bulb (eg: EN-DGU005 - Aurora Enlite 5w dimmable), so if/when it goes can just change the bulb over. I have done this on a previous development but that one I was both the developer and main contractor. It was also cheaper than an integrated fitting.

Tried looking at the JCC Hybrid9 (and Enlite gear) as I thought 10 years no hassle job jobbed, but then *if* (when?) it goes wrong, it's a pain to sort it out. Also, in 10 years time, I know I can probably buy a GU10 bulb, but can I definitely get a JCC Hybrid9 replacement lamp thing (or Enlite fitting)? For some reason though the market loves integrated so maybe am missing something important here?

For the switches, I think the MK gear looks quite expensive for what it is, and the reports on quality seem to be quite negative. The MK dimmer (K1523WHILV) seems to also have issues with buzzing based on the tiny number of Amazon reviews available. They do offer a 20 year guarantee though from what I can tell on the non-dimmer stuff, and 10 on the dimmer.

On a previous job we used all varilight screwless and had no issues, so had that on the mind as it would save a bit while looking good. Their v-pro dimmer also seems to be the dogs danglies. 10 years on their gear. Hager Sollysta and the Click stuff look nice, but no LED dimmers and a bit wary of buying separate dimmer modules with different brand faceplate for when/if things go wrong.

If you have any thoughts at all, would be really welcome. The aim is to have a good quality, easy to maintain building at a sensible price.

Thanks!
James

Set up a meeting with the specifiers, suppliers and site engineers, sort out what exactly they want. what the suppliers can provide within the time frame, get it all signed off by all participants, all agreed no problems, no drama, jobs a good un, all happy, get paid job done simples realy when you do it properly from day one.

 

[James_M]

Thanks for the feedback Adam. I think the MK Logic selection threw me a bit when I saw their pricing and then read the comments on MK quality these days. Maybe they keep parts available for longer than other brands? Maybe they are just used to specifying them from many years ago - hence thought I would put it out there.

For whatever we buy, I will likely get a box of spare switches/sockets/gridswitches etc as I don't want to risk getting stuck later.

 

[Pete999]

Or you could just wing it I suppose

 

[James_M]

Or you could just wing it I suppose

The thing is, it's my M&E who have specified it. Lead times etc are a non-issue, and it's myself that will sign off the final selection. I trust my M&E in almost all areas (their infrastructure spec was very good indeed) - it's just this part which makes me a little nervous given the comments around the MK Logic gear in these forums.

 

[Pete999]

The thing is, it's my M&E who have specified it. Lead times etc are a non-issue, and it's myself that will sign off the final selection. I trust my M&E in almost all areas (their infrastructure spec was very good indeed) - it's just this part which makes me a little nervous given the comments around the MK Logic gear in these forums.

Jf they specify MK logic, and are happy with that choice, take no notice of what Forums say about MK stuff, their money their choice the customer is always right as they say.
As long as you have their choices of equipment in the contracts documents I honestly can't understand why you are worrying. More money for youre company if they don't like their choice and decide to change kerching.

 

[James_M]

Jf they specify MK logic, and are happy with that choice, take no notice of what Forums say about MK stuff, their money their choice the customer is always right as they say.
As long as you have their choices of equipment in the contracts documents I honestly can't understand why you are worrying.

Because I AM the customer, and it's my money, so I'm questioning it!!! =)

To be clear, in this project my position is customer/client, though my background is one of a developer.

 

[Pete999]

Because I AM the customer, and it's my money, so I'm questioning it!!! =)

To be clear, in this project my position is customer/client, though my background is one of a developer.

Would have been a good idea to clarify that at the outset of this discussion, don't you think?

 

[Adam W]

MK logic might not be the clear market leader any more, but their stuff is OK. Maybe not worth the extra especially if you're buying a lot of it, but it's still a safe bet. I think what it has going for it is every wholesaler has it in stock, whereas they might keep limited stocks of other brands and may have their favourite.

 

[James_M]

Would have been a good idea to clarify that at the outset of this discussion, don't you think?

Sorry Pete - my second paragraph in the opening post wasn't as clear as I thought!

Adam - will keep that in mind. I guess in my mind it looked like a potential value engineering option to something like the Varilight range. For the other gear, I genuinely didn't have a clue and appreciate the feedback you gave.

 

[westward10]

MK is not the marque it was but to be honest it is no different in quality to the other commonly used brands.

 

[mydigitalhome]

MK are not what they used to be. Prefer GET Ultimate flat plate S/S face, black insert & Screwless. Bit disappointed with Scolemore accessories as have had recent issues quality of finish is not as good as GET, however I do like their grid switches as they are rated unto 32A where others maximum 20A. As far a basic light fitting is concerned suggest check out Ansell. I too like Hagar or Wylex. Good luck

 

[Pete999]

Sorry Pete - my second paragraph in the opening post wasn't as clear as I thought!

Adam - will keep that in mind. I guess in my mind it looked like a potential value engineering option to something like the Varilight range. For the other gear, I genuinely didn't have a clue and appreciate the feedback you gave.

No worries James

 

[Leesparkykent]

Click mode for me if basic white plastic.

 

[PEG]

Whose idea was it to fill the kitchen with grid switches?

 

[James_M]

Whose idea was it to fill the kitchen with grid switches?

That was the engineer - assume it'll be in a single cupboard in one of the wall units.

Is this a bad idea?! On the last site the electrician I used insisted on using it, even though we had individual ones at/near appliances at worktop level indicated initially.

 

[PEG]

Whose idea was it to fill the kitchen with grid switches?

That was the engineer - assume it'll be in a single cupboard in one of the wall units.

Is this a bad idea?! On the last site the electrician I used insisted on using it, even though we had individual ones at/near appliances at worktop level indicated initially.

Hi,just a personal thought,that it seems fashionable in some instances,to have a Startrek console in a new kitchen,causing possible consternation for the spark,and no discernible benefit,to the client.

Could spend the time and effort on the lighting? People love to show off,their nice lighting...nobody gets reciprocal invites,for suggesting "Come round and let me show you my new individual means of isolating a variety of white-goods from a single panel..."

 

[Adam W]

That was the engineer - assume it'll be in a single cupboard in one of the wall units.

Is this a bad idea?! On the last site the electrician I used insisted on using it, even though we had individual ones at/near appliances at worktop level indicated initially.

The idea behind them is to provide an accessible point of isolation so for example you can switch the fridge off in a hurry if you start getting smoke coming out of it. As such you'd normally have it above the worktop or perhaps behind a door, but not at the back of a cupboard.

You don't have to have them, but they can make the kitchen seem neater - the alternative could be to have a switch above or near to every appliance - fridge/freezer, boiler, hob, extractor, washing machine, dishwasher, oven, tumble dryer... That's 8, in addition to the sockets above the worktop, and it's almost worth putting them all in dado or bench trunking.

 

[Octopus]

Whose idea was it to fill the kitchen with grid switches?

Somebody who doesn't realise how horrible they are to fit and fix when they go wrong.....