Death penalty

[plugsandsparks]

Don't think terrorists are a good example here, I quote the old saying "one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. There are quite a few here Resistance movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many IRA terrorist have been released and I believe our government , along with the US, are looking to "bring Jihadi John to justice" aka drop a missile on his head. This does make life a little more complicated than you maybe think. Who needs the death penalty if our citizens have already been labelled as extremists, we just kill them as an act of war.

 

[Engineer54]

Don't think terrorists are a good example here, I quote the old saying "one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. There are quite a few here Resistance movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many IRA terrorist have been released and I believe our government , along with the US, are looking to "bring Jihadi John to justice" aka drop a missile on his head. This does make life a little more complicated than you maybe think. Who needs the death penalty if our citizens have already been labelled as extremists, we just kill them as an act of war.

Any organisation that purposely targets innocent civilians aren't by any stretch of the imagination ''Freedom Fighters'' You can dress it up as much as you want, they are and always have been Terrorists...

 

[D Skelton]

Any organisation that purposely targets innocent civilians aren't by any stretch of the imagination ''Freedom Fighters'' You can dress it up as much as you want, they are and always have been Terrorists...

Dresden? Nagasaki?

I'm just playing devils advocate here.

 

[Engineer54]

Dresden? Nagasaki?

I'm just playing devils advocate here.

Just slightly out of context though!!

 

[D Skelton]

Just slightly out of context though!!

Not really.

Unfortunately, in this day and age, protests and civil unrest get you nowhere. The only real way to get your voice heard is by blowing $hit up!

Irish Catholics were persecuted beyond belief before the IRA formed and started targeting us. They were soon heard!

Not that I'm condoning it, but I can at least understand it.

With regards to the death penalty, I used to be very much for it, but as I've grown wiser I find myself sitting on the fence.

 

[Risteard]

The leader of the world's catholics has spoken out against it and if you're one of them there's the concept of Papal Infallibility as he has a direct line to god (allegedly)

Actually the concept of Papal Infallibility applies only to an Infallible Statement on a matter of doctrine.

 

[Besoeker]

I mentioned juries in a previous post.
I was selected to be on one. It was an indecent assault case on a young child.
The case was brought by the guy's ex-girlfriend - a woman scorned and all that.
The case was so full of holes and obvious fabrications that the verdict had to be not guilty.
The last instruction from the judge before we retired to consider the verdict was that if we had any doubt we had to find the defendant not guilty. I can't remember if it had to be a unanimous verdict but, on reflection, I think it was.

OK. Though not the foreman I thought it was an open and shut case and to avoid protracted discussions I asked for a show of hands for the not guilty verdict. I got 11 out of 12 and one old duffer he said he wasn't sure. I reminded him about the judge's parting instruction about doubt.

He wasn't having it. Many, maybe most, of the jurors, myself included, brought up children. Girls in quite a few cases. He had no children. It took nearly an Act of Parliament to get him to understand that the other 11 of us had seen the blatant flaws in the prosecution case. He wanted a "not proven" verdict. That's not a choice we all told him.

Eventually he capitulated - yes capitulated is the right word - but not with good grace.

For sure, it's a one off experience. But an experience that was shared by 12 strangers. And the realisation that you can't necessarily expect good common sense to prevail in all cases.

 

[RogertheBodger]

Good arguments for both sides, suppose I'm a fence sitter too. I like the American system of capital punishment in that those condemned have to endure a living hell for years on death row, not knowing if the next day is their last, cruel maybe, but for those truly guilty of horrific crimes perhaps it's a fitting punishment, a quick death would be too good for some of them, and for those not so guilty there is plenty of time for new evidence, appeals etc. and the death penalty is still a deterrent to would be criminals. With modern forensic techniques hopefully miscarriages of justice won't happen so much. Unfortunately there is no perfect justice system.

As for terrorists, shoot on sight.

 

[shanky887614]

Good arguments for both sides, suppose I'm a fence sitter too. I like the American system of capital punishment in that those condemned have to endure a living hell for years on death row, not knowing if the next day is their last, cruel maybe, but for those truly guilty of horrific crimes perhaps it's a fitting punishment, a quick death would be too good for some of them, and for those not so guilty there is plenty of time for new evidence, appeals etc. and the death penalty is still a deterrent to would be criminals. With modern forensic techniques hopefully miscarriages of justice won't happen so much. Unfortunately there is no perfect justice system.

As for terrorists, shoot on sight.

i prefer the american system where they have concecutice sentences e.g. 5 life sentences or 150 years etc in prison with no chance of parole.

terrorists should have no human rights and shot on site.

freedom fighters attack the military etc not civilian's.

at the end of the day i can understand why certain cities are constantly getting shelled because there population is attacking civilians on the other side

 

[Des 56]

What I find completely baffling about terrorism,whether they be religious nuts who believe in ancient fairy tails or freedom fighters who have obsession with tribal nationalism is the absolute fact that we are but a very brief moment in the history of man and an infinitesimal moment in the history of the planet and the cosmos

We are nothing but that brief moment in time,then to inflict such misery and heartbreak taking that into consideration is mind boggling that they can do such things

The religious nuts carry out their evil deeds in the name of their God,if that God is so omnipotent and powerful why for goodness sake do they think he needs a mere mortals hand enforcing his doctrine

 

[Adam W]

i prefer the american system where they have concecutice sentences e.g. 5 life sentences or 150 years etc in prison with no chance of parole.

terrorists should have no human rights and shot on site.

How will making terrorists martyrs discourage the next generation of terrorists?

The media have a part to play in this as well - everyone knows the name 'Raoul Moat' but who can name the copper he shot? If there's no such thing as bad publicity, why give all the publicity to the killer and none to the victim?
Conversely everyone knows the name 'Lee Rigby' and recognises this picture:

but how many people could name the two who killed him, or visualise what they look like? They wanted to be shot on sight - to be made martyrs and gain publicity for what they believed in, but (IMO rightly) Lee Rigby is the one who is remembered.

If terrorists can expect to live out the rest of their days lying forgotten in some jail while their victims are hailed as heroes, then what is the point of them killing in the first place?

 

[Engineer54]

What I find completely baffling about terrorism,whether they be religious nuts who believe in ancient fairy tails or freedom fighters who have obsession with tribal nationalism is the absolute fact that we are but a very brief moment in the history of man and an infinitesimal moment in the history of the planet and the cosmos

We are nothing but that brief moment in time,then to inflict such misery and heartbreak taking that into consideration is mind boggling that they can do such things

The religious nuts carry out their evil deeds in the name of their God,if that God is so omnipotent and powerful why for goodness sake do they think he needs a mere mortals hand enforcing his doctrine

Des, i've spent years working in the Middle East, and i've never been able to hold any kind of discussion or question anything regarding their religion , and these were individuals that you would consider as far more westernised than most. They have been indoctrinated from birth, and believe without question everything they have been taught both at home at school and mosque... So you can imagine the wall you would need to climb to have any form of meaningful discussion with a religious extremist/terrorist, it just ain't gonna happen!! This is why there is not a glimmer of a chance ever being able to rehabilitate these extremists, ...None!!

They can't answer any of those questions you pose above, so they just fall back on what they have be taught, and NOTHING unfortunately is going to change

 

[Engineer54]

How will making terrorists martyrs discourage the next generation of terrorists?

The media have a part to play in this as well - everyone knows the name 'Raoul Moat' but who can name the copper he shot? If there's no such thing as bad publicity, why give all the publicity to the killer and none to the victim?
Conversely everyone knows the name 'Lee Rigby' and recognises this picture:
View attachment 28530
but how many people could name the two who killed him, or visualise what they look like? They wanted to be shot on sight - to be made martyrs and gain publicity for what they believed in, but (IMO rightly) Lee Rigby is the one who is remembered.

If terrorists can expect to live out the rest of their days lying forgotten in some jail while their victims are hailed as heroes, then what is the point of them killing in the first place?

The cost of keeping them in prison, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds a year sounds like a pretty good reason to me!! Plus there's zero chance to indoctrinate others while they are incarcerated either!!

 

[D Skelton]

How will making terrorists martyrs discourage the next generation of terrorists?

The media have a part to play in this as well - everyone knows the name 'Raoul Moat' but who can name the copper he shot? If there's no such thing as bad publicity, why give all the publicity to the killer and none to the victim?
Conversely everyone knows the name 'Lee Rigby' and recognises this picture:
View attachment 28530
but how many people could name the two who killed him, or visualise what they look like? They wanted to be shot on sight - to be made martyrs and gain publicity for what they believed in, but (IMO rightly) Lee Rigby is the one who is remembered.

If terrorists can expect to live out the rest of their days lying forgotten in some jail while their victims are hailed as heroes, then what is the point of them killing in the first place?

Adebalajo and adebewale.

I didn't need to look that up.

Scum!

They're getting a good hiding in prison from what I hear too!

 

[Adam W]

The cost of keeping them in prison, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds a year sounds like a pretty good reason to me!! Plus there's zero chance to indoctrinate others while they are incarcerated either!!

Why give terrorists what they want just to save a couple of quid?
And would it not be a bit cheaper if nobody went around murdering people in the street in the first place?

 

[D Skelton]

My idea of the perfect prison system for serious offenders:

A penal colony, on an island, in the middle of nowhere. The whole island walled and guarded by geezers with big guns on towers. Dump the scum on the island and leave them to it. Basic rations to be dropped once a month. Cheap and cheerful.

 

[GB.Kayak]

My idea of the perfect prison system for serious offenders:

A penal colony, on an island, in the middle of nowhere. The whole island walled and guarded by geezers with big guns on towers. Dump the scum on the island and leave them to it. Basic rations to be dropped once a month. Cheap and cheerful.

Already tried that ... place called New South Wales on the continent of Australia! Are you volunteering for a tour of duty?

... mind you sentencing then was much harder than it is now.

 

[Engineer54]

Why give terrorists what they want just to save a couple of quid?
And would it not be a bit cheaper if nobody went around murdering people in the street in the first place?

It's NOT just a couple of quid though is it, the money spent on keeping this scum in prison for life could be far better spent elsewhere!!
Who gives a flying f**k if these scum think they are martyrs or not, we'll be well rid of them, end of!!

 

[shanky887614]

How will making terrorists martyrs discourage the next generation of terrorists?

The media have a part to play in this as well - everyone knows the name 'Raoul Moat' but who can name the copper he shot? If there's no such thing as bad publicity, why give all the publicity to the killer and none to the victim?
Conversely everyone knows the name 'Lee Rigby' and recognises this picture:
View attachment 28530
but how many people could name the two who killed him, or visualise what they look like? They wanted to be shot on sight - to be made martyrs and gain publicity for what they believed in, but (IMO rightly) Lee Rigby is the one who is remembered.

If terrorists can expect to live out the rest of their days lying forgotten in some jail while their victims are hailed as heroes, then what is the point of them killing in the first place?

if the terrorists are dead there wont be a new generation of terrorists

 

[Engineer54]

My idea of the perfect prison system for serious offenders:

A penal colony, on an island, in the middle of nowhere. The whole island walled and guarded by geezers with big guns on towers. Dump the scum on the island and leave them to it. Basic rations to be dropped once a month. Cheap and cheerful.

Unfortunately, the Anoraks from ''Amnesty International'' and the like, will be screaming from the rooftops. Just can't do anything like that anymore. The French penal colonies of the 20's had the right idea, and was along very similar lines to your proposal!! lol!!