Death penalty

[Besoeker]

The cost of keeping them in prison, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds a year sounds like a pretty good reason to me!! Plus there's zero chance to indoctrinate others while they are incarcerated either!!

Unless the other inmates are predisposed to their indoctrination.

 

[Adam W]

Who gives a flying f**k if these scum think they are martyrs or not, we'll be well rid of them, end of!!

They do, which is one of the reasons they do it. Sure you can shoot them, but there are plenty of others who will take their place.

 

[RogertheBodger]

They do, which is one of the reasons they do it. Sure you can shoot them, but there are plenty of others who will take their place.

So shoot them as well, I'm not so sure any of them WANT to be martyrs.

In the words of George S. Patton:- No poor dumb b*****d ever won a war by dying for his country, he won the war by making the other poor, dumb b*****d die for his country.

If they want to be martyrs, good luck.

 

[Engineer54]

They do, which is one of the reasons they do it. Sure you can shoot them, but there are plenty of others who will take their place.

Exactly so what are you worrying about, at least the ones that are caught are permanently out of the picture, ...6 foot under!!

Actually, there are very defined parameters within the Koran for calling Jihad and being a Jihad martyr, and none of them has anything to do with wholesale indiscriminate killing of civilians because they don't follow the Koran or their version of the Koran...

You'll not change anything i'm afraid they believe what they want to believe and do exactly as they are told by those that have no intention of putting themselves in harms way!!

 

[Adam W]

Exactly so what are you worrying about, at least the ones that are caught are permanently out of the picture, ...6 foot under!!

Actually, there are very defined parameters within the Koran for calling Jihad and being a Jihad martyr, and none of them has anything to do with wholesale indiscriminate killing of civilians because they don't follow the Koran or their version of the Koran...

You'll not change anything i'm afraid they believe what they want to believe and do exactly as they are told by those that have no intention of putting themselves in harms way!!

I don't know that the Koran has much relevance here - these are extremists who believe their religion justifies killing a soldier or policeman in the country where they live. Or killing a member of their own family who they believe has brought shame on the family.
The outcome these extremists are looking for is to be shot by the police for doing something they believe is in the interests of their religion, and not to get beaten up in jail. If they believe dying in this way will ensure them a better next life, the threat of being shot dead is no deterrent, it's even an incentive.

 

[BES]

I'm am for the death penalty in certain cases not always so I used to be completely againts it and the reason I changed my view I won't go into now.
I have been facinated by the subject since I read Albert Pierrpoints biography when I was a teenager , a man who hung over 600 people including 90% of the most famous cases in recent british criminal history including numerous ---- war criminals in his time as ' No 1 executioner of britain ' who after he ' retired ' thought capital punishment was wrong !!!
We have to be extremly carefull when discussing this subject because we tend to forget the victims and I think I such cases as lee rigby , huntley , sutcliff where proof is without doubt the victims families should have some say in the punishment.

 

[trev]

With modern forensic techniques hopefully miscarriages of justice won't happen so much.

And when they do?
"Oh, sorry we hanged your brother/son/wife/daughter by mistake" isn't really going to cut the mustard is it?

 

[RogertheBodger]

And when they do?
"Oh, sorry we hanged your brother/son/wife/daughter by mistake" isn't really going to cut the mustard is it?

Let's hope they don't. For Countries that still use the death penalty, this is the chance they take, and the main reason that the penalty has been abolished in many Countries.

As far as the the UK is concerned, were the death penalty to be reintroduced (which is highly unlikely) for the most serious of offenders it is to be hoped that with modern techniques guilt would be able to be proven beyond ANY doubt.

 

[trev]

Let's hope they don't. For Countries that still use the death penalty, this is the chance they take, and the main reason that the penalty has been abolished in many Countries.

As far as the the UK is concerned, were the death penalty to be reintroduced (which is highly unlikely) for the most serious of offenders it is to be hoped that with modern techniques guilt would be able to be proven beyond ANY doubt.

Timothy Evans and Barry George, two people who were found guilty beyond reasonable doubt (which is the legal test) one was hanged and the other would have been had we still had the death penalty.

 

[rapparee]

As for terrorists, shoot on sight.

Like what happened to jean charles de menzes that brazillian electrician

 

[RogertheBodger]

Timothy Evans and Barry George, two people who were found guilty beyond reasonable doubt (which is the legal test) one was hanged and the other would have been had we still had the death penalty.

I did say beyond ANY doubt Trev, it's unlikely that any cases could be proved to that standard, but IF it was, and it was a case deserving of the death sentence what would you say then?

How many people have been executed by mistake in the past, set against the number of people who have been, and continue to be murdered?
Having a death penalty is not only about the rights of the accused, it's also about deterrence and the right to justice for the families of the victims.

I'm not advocating the return of the death penalty anytime soon, but would you be so forcefully against it if the victim was one of your own, because there are a lot of people in that position these days.

 

[rapparee]

with modern forensic techniques hopefully miscarriages of justice won't happen so much. Unfortunately there is no perfect justice system.

.

Brian shivers was wrongly convicted of the rira masserene army barracks shooting in 2009, he has since been totally vindicated and the dna evidence was deemed to be dodgey

 

[RogertheBodger]

Like what happened to jean charles de menzes that brazillian electrician

He wasn't a terrorist. What happened to him was a tragedy that shouldn't have happened, but it had nothing to do with the death penalty.

You do know that when I say shoot terrorists on sight, I mean when they are carrying out a terrorist act, or we wouldn't know they were terrorists would we?

For instance the two who killed Lee Rigby, they survived to have their day in court, to perform in court on the world stage, giving their crackpot ideas and warped philosophy to all the impressionable Muslims around the world. Should have put an end to it there and then, over and done with.

 

[trev]

I did say beyond ANY doubt Trev, it's unlikely that any cases could be proved to that standard, but IF it was, and it was a case deserving of the death sentence what would you say then?

How many people have been executed by mistake in the past, set against the number of people who have been, and continue to be murdered?
Having a death penalty is not only about the rights of the accused, it's also about deterrence and the right to justice for the families of the victims.

I'm not advocating the return of the death penalty anytime soon, but would you be so forcefully against it if the victim was one of your own, because there are a lot of people in that position these days.

That's a very emotive argument which is trotted out by pro death penalty advocates but (hopefully) it's a situation I'll never have to face because I, nor anyone else, can realistically answer it. I think I'd prefer for the person to spend the rest of his or her life in prison rather than getting a quick release at the end of a rope but like I say, I can't guarantee I'd feel that way.
That said, I have read articles where the families of victims have said the same because it doesn't bring the person back. Imo it's not a punishment, it's revenge and I don't think revenge has a place in the criminal justice system.
To my way of thinking you either support the death penalty or you do not. You can't say that person A should hang for his crime but person B shouldn't and there have been too many miscarriages of justice for me to be comfortable with it

 

[Adam W]

Like what happened to jean charles de menzes that brazillian electrician

In the case of jean charles de menzes it wasn't so much 'death penalty' for something he'd done, but something the police perceived he would do, based on their background information.

Upon further investigation it turns out they shot (murdered if you will) an innocent electrician.
They made a mistake there.

 

[Engineer54]

I don't know that the Koran has much relevance here - these are extremists who believe their religion justifies killing a soldier or policeman in the country where they live. Or killing a member of their own family who they believe has brought shame on the family.

The outcome these extremists are looking for is to be shot by the police for doing something they believe is in the interests of their religion, and not to get beaten up in jail. If they believe dying in this way will ensure them a better next life, the threat of being shot dead is no deterrent, it's even an incentive.

So who gives a flying ---- what they want or don't want, if they are shot dead by police/security services or executed by a state, they are dead, and no longer a threat to anyone, so where's the problem??

EDIT.... Don't make the mistake of considering these fanatical extremists/terrorists in the same light as your typical criminal murderer, they are about as far removed from your typical criminal element as you could possibly get. That's half the trouble with western thinking, they have no idea or just don't understand who or what they are dealing with.

 

[Adam W]

So who gives a flying ---- what they want or don't want, if they are shot dead by police/security services or executed by a state, they are dead, so where's the problem??

The problem is that that's what they want.

 

[Engineer54]

The problem is that that's what they want.

That's fine, that's not any form of problem, they are dead and out of circulation.... If you are under the ill found impression that it encourages others, they have already been well and truly indoctrinated it make's no difference whatsoever, so why would you invest millions keeping this scum alive in prison (life sentence) and possibly creating other problems during their incarceration??

 

[Guest77]

Just to inflame the situation here, IMO, the 2 guys who were caught on film beheading lee rigby should be set on fire in the street and anyone attempting to put them out to stop their agony should be given a 5 year jail sentence, anyone caught on film interfearing with children or attempting to or actually succeeding planting a bomb in our city's should be immediately executed after the trial, no last meal, no asking for forgiveness from a priest, straight to the gallows or execution centre, this should be for crimes caught on camera where there is absolutely no doubt, fluck em, kill the Bstards.

 

[shanky887614]

on another note, the eu is trying to interfere with the us death penalty by not supplying them with the lethal injection, there just going to shoot them now in certain states instead.

to be fair its more humane to have a well placed shot kill, than suffocate to death after having an injection