Defibrillator Install in Phone Box

[Nathan9]

Hi there,

I'm looking for some advice on installing a defibrillator cabinet in an ex BT phone box. I have taken ownership of the phone box and have a Defibsafe2 cabinet. The defib cabinet itself is class 2. The supply I have into the phone box has no earth, it's just live and neutral into a lamppost style cut-out with a 10A BS88 fuse then feeding a spur which feeds the class 2 light. Is installing this cabinet as simple as adding a 2nd spur? I've added a photo of the phone box supply. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Rockingit]

Not my area of expertise but I'd say this is a BT hang-over (@Strima ?). You're required to provide an earth to any circuit, irrespective of it's need.

 

[telectrix]

bang a rod in. replace the FCU with a RCD FCU. sorted.

 

[Nathan9]

bang a rod in. replace the FCU with a RCD FCU. sorted.

So I then have to bond the metalwork as well?

 

[westward10]

Who is paying for the electricity assuming it is still live.

 

[lozarus]

I've never been involved in installing these - but I have seen the inner workings of these phone boxes over the years. Although compliance may be argued with it regards providing an earth - it's worth noting that some serious thought has gone into the design of these. The installation is designed comletely wth Class 2 in mind. If you look closely you'll see they use nylon screws to secure the FCU & JB faceplates to the respective back boxes. They're very well thought out. I've never opened up one of the FCU's so can't coment to whether they even have an earth terminal. They may very well have been custom maufactured for BT. I'd like to get my hands on one to find out.

 

[Nathan9]

BT, the phone box was purchased from them for £1 to be used to house a defib.

 

[westward10]

So BT will pay for the electricity used.

 

[lozarus]

Who is paying for the electricity assuming it is still live.

All phone boxes have unmetered supplies. When you adopt a phone box through the "adopt a phone box" scheme (which I assume is what the OP has done rather than having 'bought' the kiosk) BT Payphones actually continue to own and manage the supply.

Info here

They do reserve the right to cut it off as a result of this (can't see why they would though, unless you tried to run a coffee shop through it)

 

[Nathan9]

So BT will pay for the electricity used.

This is the agreement providing it is used to house a defib. But they can at any time get a meter fitted.

 

[Nathan9]

All phone boxes have unmetered supplies. When you adopt a phone box through the "adopt a phone box" scheme (which I assume is what the OP has done rather than having 'bought' the kiosk) BT Payphones actually continue to own and manage the supply.

Info here

They do reserve the right to cut it off as a result of this (can't see why they would though, unless you tried to run a coffee shop through it)

Yes this is the situation

 

[R-fur]

I did a lot of work with BT kiosks a number of years ago (25). I was working for a DNO disconnecting and reconnecting supplies to allow BT to change the old red kiosks to modern kiosks.
A big issue was that in some areas the kiosk was connected to the 5th core in the mains cable, the 5th core is switched and used for street lighting. This was fine when the supply was used only for the interior light, but became an issue when high tech card phones were fitted that only worked when the street lights were on!
The use of 5th cores is historical and goes back to old council electricity supplies and the exact system varies from town to town. Just check that you have a 24 hour supply before you quote.

 

[Nathan9]

I did a lot of work with BT kiosks a number of years ago (25). I was working for a DNO disconnecting and reconnecting supplies to allow BT to change the old red kiosks to modern kiosks.
A big issue was that in some areas the kiosk was connected to the 5th core in the mains cable, the 5th core is switched and used for street lighting. This was fine when the supply was used only for the interior light, but became an issue when high tech card phones were fitted that only worked when the street lights were on!
The use of 5th cores is historical and goes back to old council electricity supplies and the exact system varies from town to town. Just check that you have a 24 hour supply before you quote.

Good shout, confirmed it's 24 hour.

 

[R-fur]

I can see from your picture it is a newer style box of the type we were fitting so didn't think you would have an issue, it just one to keep on mind for the future.

 

[telectrix]

hope i never have a heart attack... debrillator realigning all them beer molecules in my bloodstream. .. open invitation for the aliens with their 5g networks to dose me with covid19, then beam me up for an alien autopsy. ( a step up from the NHS who could not diagnose a head cold from a hangover). now where did i put my tinfoil helmet?

 

[Strima]

I was involved in the initial stages of adding mobile phone small cells (PICO) to this style of phone box, the KX100 and KX100+.

All of the original boxes were supplied as a TT with no earth, as all the items were class 2 there was no requirement for an earth.

As the kit we were installing was class 1 BT went round and added an earth electrode, normally a rod installed behind the power panel. They also added SMART RCD and 6 amp MCB for us to terminate into.

Have you carried out a Ze on the supply to see if you're getting a good earth through the cabinet root?

This was mounted onto a DIN rail on the ply sheet behind the power panel.

Some had main switches and some didn't but you might be able to get away with using the existing fuse carrier for the light to provide an isolation point for you to install the supply for the defib unit.

On another project we did install a DIN rail in the cab with RCD and fuse carrier etc with a Perspex cover over the top to prevent accidental contact. This was in a cabinet that required a tool to open it, might give you an option.



TBH there's lots of options for you to use so whatever your budget allows.

 

[Nathan9]

I was involved in the initial stages of adding mobile phone small cells (PICO) to this style of phone box, the KX100 and KX100+.

All of the original boxes were supplied as a TT with no earth, as all the items were class 2 there was no requirement for an earth.

As the kit we were installing was class 1 BT went round and added an earth electrode, normally a rod installed behind the power panel. They also added SMART RCD and 6 amp MCB for us to terminate into.

Have you carried out a Ze on the supply to see if you're getting a good earth through the cabinet root?

This was mounted onto a DIN rail on the ply sheet behind the power panel.

Some had main switches and some didn't but you might be able to get away with using the existing fuse carrier for the light to provide an isolation point for you to install the supply for the defib unit.

On another project we did install a DIN rail in the cab with RCD and fuse carrier etc with a Perspex cover over the top to prevent accidental contact. This was in a cabinet that required a tool to open it, might give you an option.

View attachment 62810

TBH there's lots of options for you to use so whatever your budget allows.

Thanks for this. I haven't done a Ze yet. But this has gave me a great starting point.

 

[bill01803]

I think you will find that phone box supplies are classed as IT

 

[R-fur]

think you will find that phone box supplies are classed as IT

I don't think so. IT supplies are prohibited on a public network.

 

[Strima]

I think you will find that phone box supplies are classed as IT

All I have dealt with are either TNC-S or TT. They're normally fed from the public supply so IT is a no go.