does everyone who gets ranked as technician lose their brains?

[gnuuser]

while instructing an apprentice at running conduit for a machine change today some contractors were installing a varimot drive motor with the assistance of the manufacturers tech.
they frogged around with the motor for nearly 3 hours trying to get it to run.
including changing out the motor and inverter head!

i remembered the varimot drives will show a fault and shut down the motor to prevent the motor from single phasing should it lose a leg.
when i mentioned this bit of info i had my guys meter the legs and what do you know they found leg one dead (new fuse but faulty)

i mean really this is a rookie mistake to not check the fuses and supply legs to a motor
what kinda crap do they teach these techs?

 

[monjoor]

Perhaps these manufacturing tech didn't have enough field experience, possibly so used to their in house own proved test jigs?

But yeah they should have check if all phases are in.

 

[Engineer54]

while instructing an apprentice at running conduit for a machine change today some contractors were installing a varimot drive motor with the assistance of the manufacturers tech.
they frogged around with the motor for nearly 3 hours trying to get it to run.
including changing out the motor and inverter head!

i remembered the varimot drives will show a fault and shut down the motor to prevent the motor from single phasing should it lose a leg.
when i mentioned this bit of info i had my guys meter the legs and what do you know they found leg one dead (new fuse but faulty)

i mean really this is a rookie mistake to not check the fuses and supply legs to a motor
what kinda crap do they teach these techs?

Not a lot if that is anything to go by!!
Which just shows the importance of testing and the all important ability of fault finding....

 

[shanky887614]

while instructing an apprentice at running conduit for a machine change today some contractors were installing a varimot drive motor with the assistance of the manufacturers tech.
they frogged around with the motor for nearly 3 hours trying to get it to run.
including changing out the motor and inverter head!

i remembered the varimot drives will show a fault and shut down the motor to prevent the motor from single phasing should it lose a leg.
when i mentioned this bit of info i had my guys meter the legs and what do you know they found leg one dead (new fuse but faulty)

i mean really this is a rookie mistake to not check the fuses and supply legs to a motor
what kinda crap do they teach these techs?

they sound like idiots.

i know on danfoss inverters etc you need to put a couple links in to get them to run.

its all in black and white in a book that comes with every inverter.

why they techs didn't check for V first no one will ever know

 

[Darkwood]

You have had an interaction with a certified idiot so does that make all Technicians the same? ... The world is full of numpties with titles well above their station for whatever reason but you shouldn't paint everyone with the same brush just because you meet one or two... he's probably a paper pusher lacking practical experience and yes! probably getting paid more than his worth but just ask him how a person holding a technician level of recognision does not do something so basic as testing and checking all voltage is present - a fundamental test, now yes complacency may play a part but when the drive didn't work it would be the first thing to check IMHO ... so ask him and revel in humour at his attempt to save face.

 

[UNG]

Makes you wonder how many days or weeks training the manufacturers techs get before they are let loose

 

[andyelectric]

Always a chuckle if someone doesn't check fuses as a starter for ten. I've even seen experienced guys do it when a fault looks like a common one thats nothing to do with supplies but turns out otherwise.

 

[Guest77]

[h=2]does everyone who gets ranked as technician lose their brains?[/h]
Well I feel I still have mine, HTHs.

 

[Knobhead]

while instructing an apprentice at running conduit for a machine change today some contractors were installing a varimot drive motor with the assistance of the manufacturers tech.
they frogged around with the motor for nearly 3 hours trying to get it to run.
including changing out the motor and inverter head!

i remembered the varimot drives will show a fault and shut down the motor to prevent the motor from single phasing should it lose a leg.
when i mentioned this bit of info i had my guys meter the legs and what do you know they found leg one dead (new fuse but faulty)

i mean really this is a rookie mistake to not check the fuses and supply legs to a motor
what kinda crap do they teach these techs?

So you’ve never overlooked anything basic then? If you say you haven’t I’ll call you a liar to your face.

 

[gnuuser]

So you’ve never overlooked anything basic then? If you say you haven’t I’ll call you a liar to your face.

only one time when i was a rookie and i still remember the painful jolt from a capacitor bank quite well!
i must admit it did wonders to improve my ability to pay attention to details and procedures

i cant label all techs like those guys many ive met were top notch
but it made me wonder why they missed that ( i think these guys were in a bit of a hurry to finish up and it kind of bit them in the rear)

 

[gnuuser]

If I have offended anyone here it was not my intention. I signed up on this site to learn better and safer ways to improve the skills of my apprentices, but due to the rampant anti-american abuse ive had to endure it has seriously soiled the memory of the british gent who introduced me to the electrical trade.
I have not meddled if british affairs I have observed and asked questions only!
I have not tried to change policies in the uk nor would i ever interfere with them.
I was not tarring the entire technician trade as tony implied, I merely asked a funny question as to why the techs missed such a basic issue. (read the reply while i was at work and since then it has been removed)

many of you chaps have been decent to me and have helped me with information and site links.
For this I am very grateful.
some of you I can honestly refer to as friends. and for that I am also grateful.

but since Im not worthy enough in the eyes of some of you I will not bother to return!
I am a very tolerant person but even I have a limit.

to any admin or friends i have here you may contact me if you wish but that is your choice

 

[Knobhead]

As my question has been deleted I’ll ask again.

Why come on to a British site for information so you can teach your “apprentices”? A site where most work to BS7671 and not the NFPA-NEC

This is the first time I’ve noticed you even mention training apprentices. If you’re using our containment methods in the US I’d be interested to know how the NEC inspectors rate our methods.

BTW in anticipation I took a screen shot of my deleted post “just in case”.

 

[UNG]

As my question has been deleted

Yesterday was obviously delete post Saturday one of mine disappeared in another thread why is it non of the mods have the common courtesy to PM the reason why?

 

[Knobhead]

They haven’t got time because they’re to busy deleting posts.

The last time I had a post deleted I was sent a PM which stated the moderator hadn’t the time to read the entire thread. My response was not having time to do a job properly was no excuse for taking unwarranted action. I did get an apology.

 

[Sintra]

As my question has been deleted I’ll ask again.

Why come on to a British site for information so you can teach your “apprentices”? A site where most work to BS7671 and not the NFPA-NEC

This is the first time I’ve noticed you even mention training apprentices. If you’re using our containment methods in the US I’d be interested to know how the NEC inspectors rate our methods.

BTW in anticipation I took a screen shot of my deleted post “just in case”.

Tony, you and I both know that this post is not the same as the one that I deleted. By the way there was a reason left in the thread.

 

[Sintra]

Yesterday was obviously delete post Saturday one of mine disappeared in another thread why is it non of the mods have the common courtesy to PM the reason why?

UNG unfortunately it's become a daily occurrence to have to edit or remove posts. I personally could not justify the time to PM everytime I edit a post as today I would say I've had to moderate at least 50 posts. Every modification has been left with a reason on the thread.

 

[Knobhead]

Tony, you and I both know that this post is not the same as the one that I deleted. By the way there was a reason left in the thread.

Want me to post the screen shot of the deleted post? E-mails would be safer, you can’t censor them.

This guy has consistently belittled the UK electrical trade although not in the UK. I can assure everyone the US is no role model.

 

[davesparks]

I think we all know the US is no role model for electrical safety, I've heard it said a few times that they are about 20 years behind is in it!

 

[Sintra]

Want me to post the screen shot of the deleted post? E-mails would be safer, you can’t censor them.

This guy has consistently belittled the UK electrical trade although not in the UK. I can assure everyone the US is no role model.

No need to email it to me. If you really want I'll put it up in the 3K club, then you can explain how it's the same post.

 

[Guest125]

I think we all know the US is no role model for electrical safety, I've heard it said a few times that they are about 20 years behind is in it!

So they are still in the "good 'Ol days" then?

 

[gnuuser]

This guy has consistently belittled the UK electrical trade although not in the UK. I can assure everyone the US is no role model.

i have in no way belitteled the electrical trade of the uk except in your own eyes

for christ sakes ive been trying to adopt them for our own shop

maybe this might clear things up a bit
I should have posted in my introduction that I was seeking information to improve the safety procedures and training for my apprentices because in the facilities ive worked in and been sent to assist Ive found training to be varied and too inconsistant!
many of the different schools ive researched have also been unsatisfactory due to no set standards for training.
our codes govern the construction and installation requirements but does not have any set of standards to follow when it pertains to testing or training procedures.
this is one of the things I'm trying to change!
our inspectors verify that the materials are installed to comply with the code regulations but do not require meter readings for proof that the circuits are installed correctly ( the few that ive worked with were very pleased with our guys providing them with meter results IR.,earth resistance, circuit impedance, etc.)
i myself am nearing retirement but when i do retire i want to leave my crew a highly trained and safety concientious unit!
I do not want to have to investigate an accidental injury or death ever again and i do not want to have to tell a widow or parents that their loved one died from their own stupid mistakes

if we have a set standard of testing and training procedures that must be strictly followed, there can be no question whether a panel, circuit, or alarm system is safe and complient with code.

so im not trying to change another countries regs or interfere with them at all, the ones i,m trying to change are here in my own country and hopefully for the better!
Using the UK.procedures for proving a circuit de-energized are far superior than what we are used to (in the time since my shop and crew started using UK procedures electrical incidents such as shocks and incidental short circuits have dropped to zero)
and now no one in my shop ever works live circuits (with exception of reading current or voltage) L.O.T.O. is considered a law in my shop

so if anyone feels insulted by me posting here I apologize for it

regardless of all the slagging ive been getting I honestly do value your knowledge and skills far more than you realise
as seniors and masters it is our duty to pass on the knowledge we have and guide those up and coming young people in the right direction (this is why I am trying to get the changes made in our code system and our training and testing procedures)

and what better model to use but those used in the UK.

if you have a problem with someone seeking knowledge for safety's sake then you have a problem that only you can work out

 

[andyelectric]

i have in no way belitteled the electrical trade of the uk except in your own eyes

for christ sakes ive been trying to adopt them for our own shop

maybe this might clear things up a bit
I should have posted in my introduction that I was seeking information to improve the safety procedures and training for my apprentices because in the facilities ive worked in and been sent to assist Ive found training to be varied and too inconsistant!
many of the different schools ive researched have also been unsatisfactory due to no set standards for training.
our codes govern the construction and installation requirements but does not have any set of standards to follow when it pertains to testing or training procedures.
this is one of the things I'm trying to change!
our inspectors verify that the materials are installed to comply with the code regulations but do not require meter readings for proof that the circuits are installed correctly ( the few that ive worked with were very pleased with our guys providing them with meter results IR.,earth resistance, circuit impedance, etc.)
i myself am nearing retirement but when i do retire i want to leave my crew a highly trained and safety concientious unit!
I do not want to have to investigate an accidental injury or death ever again and i do not want to have to tell a widow or parents that their loved one died from their own stupid mistakes

if we have a set standard of testing and training procedures that must be strictly followed, there can be no question whether a panel, circuit, or alarm system is safe and complient with code.

so im not trying to change another countries regs or interfere with them at all, the ones i,m trying to change are here in my own country and hopefully for the better!
Using the UK.procedures for proving a circuit de-energized are far superior than what we are used to (in the time since my shop and crew started using UK procedures electrical incidents such as shocks and incidental short circuits have dropped to zero)
and now no one in my shop ever works live circuits (with exception of reading current or voltage) L.O.T.O. is considered a law in my shop

so if anyone feels insulted by me posting here I apologize for it

regardless of all the slagging ive been getting I honestly do value your knowledge and skills far more than you realise
as seniors and masters it is our duty to pass on the knowledge we have and guide those up and coming young people in the right direction (this is why I am trying to get the changes made in our code system and our training and testing procedures)

and what better model to use but those used in the UK.

if you have a problem with someone seeking knowledge for safety's sake then you have a problem that only you can work out

(Without looking at your back posts and assuming you are genuine) there are some on here that try to assert their superiority in a variety of manners. Belittling comments, willy wanging and the constant restating of the same thing whilst purporting to debate. If you can ignore that little lot, then some of these same people post reasonably enlightening posts where others fear(as in do not have the knowledhe) to tread. Just develop a thick skin and all will be fine.

 

[gnuuser]

(Without looking at your back posts and assuming you are genuine) there are some on here that try to assert their superiority in a variety of manners. Belittling comments, willy wanging and the constant restating of the same thing whilst purporting to debate. If you can ignore that little lot, then some of these same people post reasonably enlightening posts where others fear(as in do not have the knowledhe) to tread. Just develop a thick skin and all will be fine.

Hi andy I am genuine and i am trying to make changes here in my own country,
the Uk's systems are far better than ours and i wouldn't be here except for the fact that i do value what i learn from you chaps,
I am not trying to antagonize or insult anyone nor have i ever done so here, but the simple fact that Im american has tagged a sign on my back that says feel free to @$$rape me!

I do not have a problem with discussing differences with systems because it brings better understanding and improves us, as i have stated in the earlier post my guys have learned to be safer because of what ive learned here on this forum site. and for that i thank you all profusely!
and i wish i could be there to lift a few pints with you.

so im told i have no business being on a british forum! what is a forum for but for discussion of ideas and methods i chose to learn and use your methods of proving because they are better.
i have downloaded the best practice guides that one of you chaps posted and supplied then to my guys as a guideline to follow ive also provided them with test procedures from the UK as a model to follow
while i have researched electrical forums from other countries none have provided me with detailed safety procedures as this site has
and that alone keeps me coming here

i do have a reasonably thick skin but i also have to deal with the ones who refuse to learn here in my own country and at times makes me want to pound my head against the wall in frustration

 

[Engineer54]

This guy has consistently belittled the UK electrical trade although not in the UK

.

I think maybe you are confusing gnuuser with maybe another US member. I can't honestly remember any posts where he has belittled the UK electrical industry. If anything, i can only remember him praising our practises over some of the American ways of doing things....

 

[Knobhead]

In that case I apologise unreservedly.

From my knowledge of the inadequacies of the NFPA-NEC you’re on an uphill mission and now wish you the best of luck.
That said I’m no fan of the IET’s BS7671 either. It’s restrictive and yet there are too many holes in it. But it’s not legislative whereas the NEC is.










I think I’ve stripped the teeth off the reverse gear in my brain.

 

[Oldschool]

Before you strip the motor down -- check that there's petrol in the tank!