Domestic Fuse board change politics

[chris day]

Hello Guys

I am a commercial electrician and before we change old consumer units we always carry out an EICR as the clients have money on the commercial side of things, domestics however not so much.

on the domestic front i looked a shoddy HMO for a landlord today and they dont want to pay for a report before we change the DB.

I understand the obvious quick bond an insulation resistance checks you can carry out but your going to have to give an install cert after and you may find all kinds of crap, for example o had 0.15Mohms LN-E which could be anything.

basically without knowing what your hooking the new DB up to how do you advise the client on costs when the fixed wiring also needs to be signed off and on face value looks crap?

 

[Pete999]

Hello Guys

I am a commercial electrician and before we change old consumer units we always carry out an EICR as the clients have money on the commercial side of things, domestics however not so much.

on the domestic front i looked a shoddy HMO for a landlord today and they dont want to pay for a report before we change the DB.

I understand the obvious quick bond an insulation resistance checks you can carry out but your going to have to give an install cert after and you may find all kinds of crap, for example o had 0.15Mohms LN-E which could be anything.

basically without knowing what your hooking the new DB up to how do you advise the client on costs when the fixed wiring also needs to be signed off and on face value looks crap?

If the Landlord wont pay for repairs, it's your neck on the line.

 

[Octopus]

ALL my estimates for replacing fuseboards include this:

"NB: If problems are detected during the fuseboard change additional work may be required. Such issues and associated costs will be discussed with you, prior to being implemented"

If its looking carp I won't even entertain providing a price for the change unless a basic EICR is done first.

As Pete says - maybe its best to walk away..................

 

[The Ghost]

Perhaps a line like;
In the event of a circuit not complying with BS7671 or presenting possible danger we may elect not to connect that circuit and/or issue a danger notice in our sole discretion as the installing engineer. This will be immediately communicated to the person ordering the work.
We will ensure the reasons for such an action are made clear, and the remedies and costs made known to obviate this course of action.
I don't know something along those lines anyway.

 

[Dozer 73]

Funny how so many people (public) think fitting a new DB is an instant fix to and old installation that probably could do with a rewire

 

[sparksburnout]

You have mentioned the fatal "L" word. Don't you have any proper customers
Hope DAZ isn't reading this.

 

[ED17]

If the customer won't pay for an EICR or accept that there may be existing faults that will need to be charged for then we walk away.

 

[richy3333]

I agree with what's been said. Either walkaway or have a price that contains sufficient clauses to cover you and then repeat them all in writing email/letter to the landlord so he understands. He wont read the estimate, he will just look at the bottom line.

Personally I'd walk away though (after telling him he's a d1ck ).

 

[DPG]

You have mentioned the fatal "L" word. Don't you have any proper customers
Hope DAZ isn't reading this.

Not sure about an 'L' word, but I spotted the 'your'.

 

[The Ghost]

the fatal "L" word

What is the "L" word?

 

[ferg]

Landlord?

 

[DPG]

Ah yes, thanks Ferg. I was so distracted by the 'your' I didn't even notice it!

 

[sparksburnout]

What your on about?

 

[Phillip]

Perhaps a line like;
In the event of a circuit not complying with BS7671 or presenting possible danger we may elect not to connect that circuit and/or issue a danger notice in our sole discretion as the installing engineer. This will be immediately communicated to the person ordering the work.
We will ensure the reasons for such an action are made clear, and the remedies and costs made known to obviate this course of action.
I don't know something along those lines anyway.

I totaly agree but the ever so slight problem after finding a issue is, the Landlord may say, "well" I'm not paying you.

 

[sparksburnout]

I totaly agree but the ever so slight problem after finding a issue is, the Landlord may say, "well" I'm not paying you.

Don't give the F****r the cert until he's dollared up, that's my angle on it.

 

[The Ghost]

You cannot withhold the cert because of non payment.

 

[ferg]

Cannot and shouldn't are not the same thing.

It's not unusual for me to keep hold of paperwork until payment is made.

 

[buzzlightyear]

rule number 1 ,if you change a DB and you find a fault on the any circuit .
and the customer want pay leave disconnected till the customer agrees with you to rectify that fault and put in writing first. and get them to sign a the paper .

 

[Pete999]

I totaly agree but the ever so slight problem after finding a issue is, the Landlord may say, "well" I'm not paying you.

Simple really just do the EICR any repairs will be costed and agreed as and when.

 

[Pete999]

Cannot and shouldn't are not the same thing.

It's not unusual for me to keep hold of paperwork until payment is made.

I'll hold my hands up on this, but the job wont be finished until the cert is issued, could you be on a sticky wicket with holding the cert, I don't know as I have never had an issue like the one being discussed.

 

[sparksburnout]

You cannot withhold the cert because of non payment.

You bloody can mate! It's a great bargaining tool, especially if a low life landlord is involved.
Still not heard from DAZ....

 

[davesparks]

You cannot withhold the cert because of non payment.

Of course you can,

 

[The Ghost]

No you can't any work done under part P requires a certificate to be issued within 30 days failure to do so is a criminal offence and will be enforced by building control.

 

[davesparks]

No you can't

Why not?

 

[ferg]

I hear they are having to build new prisons in Englandshire to accomodate all the part P infractions.

 

[Dave OCD]

No you can't any work done under part P requires a certificate to be issued within 30 days failure to do so is a criminal offence and will be enforced by building control.

I'd agree with you on that but we're talking about an EICR, not notifiable works. Therefore the certificate is the work being paid for and I feel these should be paid for immediately. In fact it annoys me when customers take time paying for any sort of work, usually the work has been arranged for some time and you wouldn't go into a shop and ask to pay in a couple of weeks.

 

[The Ghost]

No we are talking EIC for board change the landlord does not want EICR. Thats the whole point of the OP

 

[Wilko]

No you can't any work done under part P requires a certificate to be issued within 30 days failure to do so is a criminal offence and will be enforced by building control.

I have found that I sometimes need to revisit a test or two on site to properly complete an EIC - I'm sure it's ok, just can't read my own writing or some such failing on my part - and that would be a perfect time for a cheque to be gratefully received

 

[davesparks]

No you can't any work done under part P requires a certificate to be issued within 30 days failure to do so is a criminal offence and will be enforced by building control.

Part P requires notification to LABC within 30 days of completion of the job. It does not require certificates to be handed to the customer within 30days.

 

[The Ghost]

Ok I won't argue that you are correct. But I am still sure you do have to issue the cert. I will find out for sure. I cannot recall or feel inclined to work out where I read that right now.

 

[davesparks]

Ok I won't argue that you are correct. But I am still sure you do have to issue the cert. I will find out for sure. I cannot recall or feel inclined to work out where I read that right now.

A few years ago when I was QS for a company I was advised by the NICEIC assessor that we should hold the certificates until the bill was paid.
The company did the same thing with all certificates and guarantees (gas safe, NHBC etc etc)

 

[buzzlightyear]

if non payment of any work , reg the work with LABC and send them a copy of the test cert crossed with non payment & and not signed .
and reg the work to you self .

 

[sparksburnout]

Ok I won't argue that you are correct. But I am still sure you do have to issue the cert. I will find out for sure. I cannot recall or feel inclined to work out where I read that right now.

Most of my customers I wouldn't besmirch their reputations by being awkward, but if it happens to be a Landlord, then its divvy up first then they get the cert, simps. They are a breed apart, in my experience. Maybe I have just been unlucky.

 

[ScottR]

A few years ago when I was QS for a company I was advised by the NICEIC assessor that we should hold the certificates until the bill was paid.
The company did the same thing with all certificates and guarantees (gas safe, NHBC etc etc)

The NICEIC told me we shouldn't hold onto certificates but what i can do is pour coffee over them,crumple them and write void over each page.

 

[Pete999]

The NICEIC told me we shouldn't hold onto certificates but what i can do is pour coffee over them,crumple them and write void over each page.

Shame on the NICEIC

 

[buzzlightyear]

The NICEIC told me we shouldn't hold onto certificates but what i can do is pour coffee over them,crumple them and write void over each page.

read post 32

 

[Midwest]

I can't see the point of holding on to an EIC (or MW), when the customer will have received the compliance certificate, when the CC is the only one they are really bothered about, for a house sale or a CC from building control for their fancy extension. As far as BS 7671 a minor works or EIC are all part & parcel of the work, so it could be argued (in a small claims), that the job's not been completed, 'cos the customer hasn't received his cert'.

I used to do the old hold onto the cert' routine, but can't see the point now. That said, never had a customer refused to pay (yet), and don't do work for landlords