ELECSA Approved Balls up

[Deleted member 9648]

Evening all.
The story concerns a client who moved house a while back and had the whole place extended and refurbed and rewired. We did a few call outs before all that but they were perfectly honest and said they were going with the main contractors electrician for the extension etc....fair enough.
So I was surprised to get a call yesterday asking me to sort 3 lights in the hallway not working as the place had only recently been finished. Client explained that the whole thing had been a mare,and the electrician had been the pits,so they didnt want him back...(hard not to look smug at that point,but managed it).
Anyway,there were two GU10 downlights and a 3 lamp type fitting. Dropped a downlight to find a tape joint on the cables with 4" of basic insulation hanging out and no earth on the class 1 downlight....no power. Dropped the next downlight to find an absolute abortion of a joint on 6(!) x 1.5 cables.....all tape and basic insulation.Not wanting to get involved with it a volt stick waved around was good enough to confirm it was dead there as well. Then dropped the 3 lamp fitting to find another abortion,with the 3 lives simply loosely twisted and shove up into the ceiling with no connector or tape...bare copper. Here was the break.

Pointing out all this to the lady of the house we quickly got around to certs,she produced an ELECSA building regs cert,but had no EIC. I have advised her to contact ELECSA and complain,as very clearly this job has not been done in accordance with Part P and should not have a compliance certificate.
Anyone with ELECSA know anything about their proceedures on complaints?Do thay take them seriously or are they just interested in their contractors fees every year?

 

[Octopus]

Evening all.
The story concerns a client who moved house a while back and had the whole place extended and refurbed and rewired. We did a few call outs before all that but they were perfectly honest and said they were going with the main contractors electrician for the extension etc....fair enough.
So I was surprised to get a call yesterday asking me to sort 3 lights in the hallway not working as the place had only recently been finished. Client explained that the whole thing had been a mare,and the electrician had been the pits,so they didnt want him back...(hard not to look smug at that point,but managed it).
Anyway,there were two GU10 downlights and a 3 lamp type fitting. Dropped a downlight to find a tape joint on the cables with 4" of basic insulation hanging out and no earth on the class 1 downlight....no power. Dropped the next downlight to find an absolute abortion of a joint on 6(!) x 1.5 cables.....all tape and basic insulation.Not wanting to get involved with it a volt stick waved around was good enough to confirm it was dead there as well. Then dropped the 3 lamp fitting to find another abortion,with the 3 lives simply loosely twisted and shove up into the ceiling with no connector or tape...bare copper. Here was the break.

Pointing out all this to the lady of the house we quickly got around to certs,she produced an ELECSA building regs cert,but had no EIC. I have advised her to contact ELECSA and complain,as very clearly this job has not been done in accordance with Part P and should not have a compliance certificate.
Anyone with ELECSA know anything about their proceedures on complaints?Do thay take them seriously or are they just interested in their contractors fees every year?

No they don't take them seriously.

Its a bit like Check-a-Trade not allowing negative feedback - its not in their interest to do so.


What happened to that thread "up north" with all the issues and Elecsa due to visit???

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Didnt see that thread......seems to be even more evidence if we needed it that Part P has done nothing for consumer guarantees of a competant electrician. I dont know the electrician concerned,but I'll wager he is not an apprentice time served tradesman....almost certainly a fast tracked DI beloved of the schemes. You wouldnt normally have much sympathy for a client that has gone elsewhere,but they engaged an ELECSA approved contractor and should at least have confidence that it would be done correctly....

 

[Octopus]

This one:

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electricians-arms/92390-oh-dear-really-quite-shocking.html

 

[UNG]

Aren't ELECSA in bed with the NICEIC all run by Emma Clancy's Certsure outfit a pretty useless company unless somebody mentions changing Part P then they undermine parliamentary committee's to maintain their position in the industry and more importantly their revenue stream.

How can a competent persons scheme be so incompetent

 

[7029 dave]

Hope you charged them the earth. (for the earth)

 

[Engineer54]

Should have taken some photo's and got the homeowner to send them to ELECSA for an assessment of their members work!! Maybe even to play the ''frightened out of my life'' that everything is going to go up in smoke, and what are they going to do about it game!!

If all 3 fittings that you removed were in that state, then you can put money on the rest of the lighting being in exactly the same condition. God knows what else could be found if an in depth inspection was carried out!! Just to add insult to injury, I bet it all cost over the odds too!!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Should have taken some photo's and got the homeowner to send them to ELECSA for an assessment of their members work!! Maybe even to play the ''frightened out of my life'' that everything is going to go up in smoke, and what are they going to do about it game!!

If all 3 fittings that you removed were in that state, then you can put money on the rest of the lighting being in exactly the same condition. God knows what else could be found if an in depth inspection was carried out!! Just to add insult to injury, I bet it all cost over the odds too!!

Photo's would have been good,but my phone is prehistoric so pics were not possible. I did point out to the client that the rest should be inspected as well.....the lady of the house is not the type to be a door mat,I suspect ELECSA will be getting a roasting in the next day or two.

 

[Farmelectrics]

tell the customer to report them to elesca tell eleca your calling out the hse that will put the cat amonst the pigeons

 

[Octopus]

I've yet to hear of any of the schemes doing much about bad sparkies unless its for mis representation of membership (i.e. saying they are a member and not being a member)

 

[Farmelectrics]

so bassically murdoch they just want you dough

 

[Octopus]

so bassically murdoch they just want you dough

And basically THEY NEED TO DEMONSTRATE they are using it to improve education and standards!!

 

[Farmelectrics]

which there obvisouly not doing

 

[telectrix]

Re that other thread. Uksparks did post that elecs a had taken action, he,s contracted to rectify the installation, and elecsa are are funding the work. Contact UK for more detail.

 

[shanky887614]

i would get her to report it to the building control over dangerous work and no installation cert for install.

surely bc would be interested in unregistered work

 

[Engineer54]

Re that other thread. Uksparks did post that elecs a had taken action, he,s contracted to rectify the installation, and elecsa are are funding the work. Contact UK for more detail.

Jeez, that's got to be a first!! Are you SURE, ELECSA's insurance is funding the remedial works and not the previous electricians insurance??

 

[telectrix]

sorry, eng. if i recall, elecsa had told the customer that the work would be rectified at no cost to the customer. where it's being paid from, i don't know. ask uksparks.

 

[uksparks]

I can 100% confirm that if you make a complaint and the work is of bad enough standard etc, there's every chance they will knock the contractor off as I have first hand experience of making a complaint to Elecsa / Certsure, going through a Platinum Promise, the contractor got removed and banned from Certsure companies and I also picked the job up to rectify everything at no expense to the customer.

 

[UNG]

I can 100% confirm that if you make a complaint and the work is of bad enough standard etc, there's every chance they will knock the contractor off as I have first hand experience of making a complaint to Elecsa / Certsure, going through a Platinum Promise, the contractor got removed and banned from Certsure companies and I also picked the job up to rectify everything at no expense to the customer.

But who picks up the honour of paying your invoice

 

[uksparks]

I do believe we on here have all probably chipped in on that one...

 

[Engineer54]

More like ELECSA cliaming against the electricians insurance, there own insurance would only be footing the bill if the electrician (if indeed he could be called an electrician) had no insurance or his insurance had been canceled for one reason or another...

So uksparks, how long has all this taken ELECSA to sort this out from start to finish?? Because that's the other problem, the customer is left in limbo with a potentially dangerous electrical installation while they are dragging their feet in the course of covering their own arse and protecting company assets etc....

 

[uksparks]

I think I started the complaint at the first of July, they dragged their feet, but it got finished off a few weeks ago...

 

[1Justin]

I think sadly that this sort of thing isn't "Elecsa" per se. The thread in my experience could just as well be called "NICEIC approved Balls up". There are less ELECSA members so perhaps when this crops up it's easy to notice. I have a log of issues discovered from when I go into properties, I keep names and businesses, - but I don't know what to do with it.

I feel it's down to basic shoddy workmanship and "can't bother" attitudes than anything specific related to the organizations. (Says this Elecsa member).

Recent listings on my spreadsheet are for example:

NICEIC and Checkatrade member: EICR just completed "satisfactory"..TNCS..I find No bonding to any of the metal services, live 100% exposed meter tail connections (at child height!), no CPC on class1 fittings, No test results at all for any of the circuits except socket outlet Zs (which exceed limits). Lots more small faults.

NICEIC and Rated People member: TNCS: Couldn't bother to fit bonding back to MET, so ran 10 mm cable from rising main through the kitchen wall to an earth stake!

NICEIC and Checkatrade member: Less potentially deadly, but I was called back to a place I'd fitted a CU, to find inaccessible new JB's with screw contacts and 6" lengths of striped back primary insulation exposed to ceiling downlights.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I think sadly that this sort of thing isn't "Elecsa" per se. The thread in my experience could just as well be called "NICEIC approved Balls up". There are less ELECSA members so perhaps when this crops up it's easy to notice. I have a log of issues discovered from when I go into properties, I keep names and businesses, - but I don't know what to do with it.

I feel it's down to basic shoddy workmanship and "can't bother" attitudes than anything specific related to the organizations. (Says this Elecsa member).

Recent listings on my spreadsheet are for example:

NICEIC and Checkatrade member: EICR just completed "satisfactory"..TNCS..I find No bonding to any of the metal services, live 100% exposed meter tail connections (at child height!), no CPC on class1 fittings, No test results at all for any of the circuits except socket outlet Zs (which exceed limits). Lots more small faults.

NICEIC and Rated People member: TNCS: Couldn't bother to fit bonding back to MET, so ran 10 mm cable from rising main through the kitchen wall to an earth stake!

NICEIC and Checkatrade member: Less potentially deadly, but I was called back to a place I'd fitted a CU, to find inaccessible new JB's with screw contacts and 6" lengths of striped back primary insulation exposed to ceiling downlights.

I'm sure you are right.....it is an inevitable consequence of the de-skilling of 'qualified' electricians by the scheme providers.
By the way,how did you access the inaccessible JB's?

 

[telectrix]

he's got an iphone app. point the phone at the ceiling and it finds JBs. using uksparks' flir 4 iphone, it tells you if the terminals are overheating. ssssimplesss.

 

[1Justin]

That's a funny one. It happened to be a property I took ELECSA annual assessor round, as I'd done a CU and some other work. Customer had turned down my subsequent quote to get the kitchen done and had taken a cheaper one. Place was empty, so we both had ample opportunity to poke about above the (yet to be patched up and finished) plasterboard ceiling etc, and checked out exactly what had been done after I left it!

 

[Carlosfandango]

If elecsa pay for your remedial work, who pays for any damage to the decor etc?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I love shoddy electricians!! When I come in to fix the mess and show the homeowener my finished product as opposed to theirs I get a great deal of satisfaction and a new customer for life!!