Extending Imperial Pyro

[Strima]

I've got a job where I need to move a DB, it's currently in a pub kitchen getting covered in grease etc and the location is right above hot surfaces, not an ideal place.

The plan is to install new circuits in the kitchen, food prep and storeroom fed from a new DB in the storeroom. this will be fed from the exiting DB supply. Supply is from BS88 gG 63 amp single phase fused isolator at the intake.

My plan is to install a suitable JB which the pyro gland will be terminated into then use 16mm T&E to extend roughly 3m to the new board location. JB size 150x150.

As expected the pyro has tested fine but I forgot the measure the conductor size before turning back on and now can't get a shutdown until I can do the board move in a couple of months time.

Cable size looks similar to 7/064. The JB and joints can be made accessible so screw connections can be used.

I remember someone posting a link for some what can only be described as baby Henley blocks that would be ideal for this but I cannot remember their name and my Google Fu is failing me today.

So what options do I have?

 

[ipf]

Can you access the glands...the size will be on them.

Sounds like an adaptable box for jointing, as said.

 

[Strima]

I'm going with weatherproof purely down to the amount of grease generated in the kitchen, it's small and has two deep fat fryers running most of the day. Typical fried pub grub.

My main headache is jointing the cables.

I could just be lazy and install a rotary isolator... I will now go away and slap myself for suggesting that.

Edit: Why didn't I think of this before, DIN rail in the box with a couple of neutral connector blocks...

 

[ipf]

I'd still go with galv adaptable box with din rail. We use them regular in kitchens...totally flat surface and overlapping lid, with an isolator nearby, out of the way of the mess.
Nothing wrong with an isolator, if it suits....maybe a decent one.

 

[Strima]

I'd still go with galv adaptable box with din rail.

Galv box would be easier for terminating the earths.

This is my first kitchen job so I want to get it right first time as this will lead in for more business.

 

[ruston]

Galv box would be easier for terminating the earths.

This is my first kitchen job so I want to get it right first time as this will lead in for more business.

Get yourself a pair of non slip boots.

 

[Strima]

Get yourself a pair of non slip boots.

One of the kitchen hands was in there last week with a two foot scraper on the hot plate cleaning the crap off, very very rank... ?

 

[ruston]

They are fun to work in . Especially the extractors.

 

[ipf]

Galv box would be easier for terminating the earths.

This is my first kitchen job so I want to get it right first time as this will lead in for more business.

With the pyro, yes, but you've got din rail for earth term.
Good luck with the kitchen work.

 

[Pete999]

Can you access the glands...the size will be on them.

Sounds like an adaptable box for jointing, as said.

The cable size will be on the gland, no need for a shut down.

 

[ipf]

Galv box would be easier for terminating the earths.

This is my first kitchen job so I want to get it right first time as this will lead in for more business.

If your talking 16mm... that pyro might be a bit solid, too.....I think a bit bigger than a 6''x 6'' box would make it easier. Terms will take up a fair bit of space.

 

[Midwest]

What about a suitably sized IP65 Metal Enclosure, something like this;


Bit more nicer looking, and hopefully keep the fat at bay. Lockable as well.

 

[KennyKen]

Sorrell Box, ??

 

[James]

What about a suitably sized IP65 Metal Enclosure, something like this;

View attachment 55180
Bit more nicer looking, and hopefully keep the fat at bay. Lockable as well.

Look at Rs components, they have some nice stainless steel enclosures that would suit the application

 

[davesparks]

Seriously? Extending MICC with T&E?

 

[ipf]

Depends on situation. As a rule it's swa feeding a DB, especially considering the situation and earth required.

Could really push the boat out and get some more MICC.

 

[freddo]

Could really push the boat out and get some more MICC.

That's the more fun option! For extra super fun, extend the cable with MI by silver soldering the conductors then a brass sleeve over the joint filling it with magnesium oxide powder as you slide it over. I wonder if Pyrotenax still make the sleeves for this type of joint?

 

[ipf]

That's the more fun option! For extra super fun, extend the cable with MI by silver soldering the conductors then a brass sleeve over the joint filling it with magnesium oxide powder as you slide it over. I wonder if Pyrotenax still make the sleeves for this type of joint?

So that's why one old lad I used to know saved the powder in a tin. I thought he used to snort it over the weekend.

 

[freddo]

So that's why one old lad I used to know saved the powder in a tin. I thought he used to snort it over the weekend.

You can use it to patch an MI cable with a damaged sheath but un-damaged conductors too. Clean the sheath thoroughly around the damage to allow soldering. Cut out the damaged/burred section and remove any contaminated powder. Make patch out of copper sheet and form to fit cable, clean. Make up a paste with some spare mag ox powder and water and pack it into the cable. Dry the cable gently until insulation resistance reads clear. Silver solder patch on making sure there are no unsoldered gaps around the edge of the patch. Check insulation resistance again then put the kettle on. It's super fun, though I've only had the chance to do it once in a house on a 2L4 that got damaged by a builder waving his circular saw around.

 

[Strima]

I would love to extend using MICC however a, the customer won’t pay for it, b, the installation method doesn’t warrant it as it will be in trunking.

 

[Sintra]

I would love to extend using MICC however a, the customer won’t pay for it, b, the installation method doesn’t warrant it as it will be in trunking.

If it’s in trunking then why don’t you use singles rather than t&e?

 

[Strima]

If it’s in trunking then why don’t you use singles rather than t&e?

I could but I already have T&E. Zs on circuit is good and T&E is fine for adiabatic, no bonding to worry about as it’s a distribution circuit.

 

[ipf]

It's super fun, though I've only had the chance to do it once in a house on a 2L4 that got damaged by a builder waving his circular saw around.

Interesting.
In earlier days with the stuff, the only circular saws were fixed to the floor in a joiners shop.

 

[davesparks]

That's the more fun option! For extra super fun, extend the cable with MI by silver soldering the conductors then a brass sleeve over the joint filling it with magnesium oxide powder as you slide it over. I wonder if Pyrotenax still make the sleeves for this type of joint?

You can still get the brass joint sleeves, but I wasn't aware that pyrotenax had ever recommended filling them with powder?
All of the literature i've seen for them say each end should be potted as usual and no filling of any type was advised for the joint sleeve.
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Depends on situation. As a rule it's swa feeding a DB, especially considering the situation and earth required.

Could really push the boat out and get some more MICC.

For a couple of metres steel conduit and singles would be my preferred option usually.
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I could but I already have T&E. Zs on circuit is good and T&E is fine for adiabatic, no bonding to worry about as it’s a distribution circuit.

Personally I still wouldn't reduce the cpc by so much when it's easy enough to maintain it at its current size.
But then I wouldn't use T&E anyway as I know that anyone else seeing it afterwards will call it rough and label me as a bodge artist.

 

[freddo]

You can still get the brass joint sleeves, but I wasn't aware that pyrotenax had ever recommended filling them with powder?
All of the literature i've seen for them say each end should be potted as usual and no filling of any type was advised for the joint sleeve.

I think you are thinking about the kits that require pots and glands to be fitted to each cable? I am thinking of where the conductors are jointed end on and the brass tube is only a little bigger than the cable, not requiring any pots or glands. I can't find my Pyrotenax handbook right now to scan in. The procedure looks quite fiddly fun. I want to have a go.

 

[davesparks]

I think you are thinking about the kits that require pots and glands to be fitted to each cable? I am thinking of where the conductors are jointed end on and the brass tube is only a little bigger than the cable, not requiring any pots or glands. I can't find my Pyrotenax handbook right now to scan in. The procedure looks quite fiddly fun. I want to have a go.

Yes thats the only sleeves I've ever seen or used. I dont think I've ever seen any reference to tube like that for jointing, that sounds more like the lead sleeve joints for PILC cables.

 

[ipf]

For a couple of metres steel conduit and singles would be my preferred option usually.
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That just depends on what access to run you have. It might be above a ceiling and through a wall, which, in an existing kitchen such as this, it could well be.

 

[EddieSparks]

Seriously? Extending MICC with T&E?

If there is a much heat as you said, T&E is not the first choice for me. I have a done a lot of kitchen referbs in hotels and schools pubs even a nuclear power station.
if possible I would use steel conduit or some 2x2” steel trucking. with singles or even better would be to run the new cable away from head source all together.

 

[freddo]

Yes thats the only sleeves I've ever seen or used. I dont think I've ever seen any reference to tube like that for jointing, that sounds more like the lead sleeve joints for PILC cables.

Found the book. It is referred to as a brazed butt joint, no good for different sized cables though: