Discuss Federal 3871 “type” required for EICR in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi does anyone know the type of the Federal “brown” 3871 breakers? The 3 poles have type 4 on them but nothing on the single poles? If they were type 4 the max zs of most circuits wont comply following our EICR.

Many thanks
 
does this help?
file:///C:/Users/tel/Downloads/Zesses-sheets.pdf
 
How easy will they be to find??
Impossible now as Federal Electric are no more. There are many internet Tables you can look at as per #6 but these can only be taken at face value. Merlin Gerin, Federal Electric, Square D and Dorman Smith were the most common producers and all quote variable maximum values of Zs so one Table does not cover all brands. Manufacturers Tables also quote 0.4sec and 5sec disconnection times. The attached fax came from Federal Electric many years ago, I have overwritten so it is legible.Federal 3871 “type” required for EICR 20180614_130400 - EletriciansForums.net
 
Impossible now as Federal Electric are no more. There are many internet Tables you can look at as per #6 but these can only be taken at face value. Merlin Gerin, Federal Electric, Square D and Dorman Smith were the most common producers and all quote variable maximum values of Zs so one Table does not cover all brands. Manufacturers Tables also quote 0.4sec and 5sec disconnection times. The attached fax came from Federal Electric many years ago, I have overwritten so it is legible.View attachment 42774

Thats brill thank you very much for taking the time to assist!
 
Type 4 devices have trip characteristics of 50×In so you could calculate a maximum Zs value although this is likely to be much less than the manufacturers guidelines, this is because 50× is the worse case scenario due to standards allowing between 10 - 50 × In. It is possible on higher disconnection times the thermal trip is considered over the magnetic trip.
 
Hi does anyone know the type of the Federal “brown” 3871 breakers? The 3 poles have type 4 on them but nothing on the single poles? If they were type 4 the max zs of most circuits wont comply following our EICR.

Many thanks

It’s worth bearing in mind that Federal Electric went under because they fraudulently falsified test results of their MCB’s. There never was a product recall because it was deemed too expensive and it was cheaper to settle any claims through the courts. So it might be prudent to get rid of the fire starters while you have the chance.:)
 
How would you word that on an eicr like the OP is doing.
 
They already don’t meet the maximum earth loop impedance allowed and under the 18th Edition will do so even less. He could also just note the safety implications in the recommendation section of the E.I.C.R. and let the client make up their own mind. It’s all about risk management. I personally have never seen a Federal Electric breaker burned out above 32A. They seem to fair better at higher ratings.
 
It’s worth bearing in mind that Federal Electric went under because they fraudulently falsified test results of their MCB’s. There never was a product recall because it was deemed too expensive and it was cheaper to settle any claims through the courts. So it might be prudent to get rid of the fire starters while you have the chance.:)
If that was true I would have thought they would have been forced to stop selling them and we would have had it all over the trade press.
 

Reply to Federal 3871 “type” required for EICR in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

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