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Duncan Norman

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Magical
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Last time I posted on forum it was on the thorny issue of over unity machines which alas got confused with perpetual motion -- and other supposed heretic area's of science.
Clean - free ? energy is very politic at the moment and as other electricians on forum got very bent out of shape with the subject I thought I'd poke the subject again - with a sharper stick.
I'd like to point out that there is no such thing as 'over unity' in any classical engineering sense energy must convert/transform from somewhere.
An example might be a water wheel apart from the initial cost of the wheel nature supplies the prime mover.
There are then methods and types of natural energy and electricity about which the vast majority of us know nothing .
The planets natural electricity system runs parallel to that which we are used to but a dimension removed.
In any discussion on free energy the name Nikkola Tesla will quickly arise in 1898 he demonstrated a four channel radio controlled boat at distance. Indeed little of this mans publically demonstrated work has been demonstrated again --- Its gone!


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No great feat in this day and age however he had no transistors , no valves , certainly no I.Cs Tesla had wood ,paper , Brass Iron and not much else .
The truth is the very best engineers of this day and age cannot match that technology with those constraints applied. - not a chance!
The reason is he was engineering a type of electricity that has been erased from the teaching curriculum at the very highest levels and expunged from the libraries and all pertaining patents .
The technology itself has been suppressed and people who dare to use or develop it publicly - silenced.
For the majority reading this post the next response is - show me a working example
I'm afraid that is pointless I have watched large numbers of people watching machines that are running in a state classical engineering would call 'over unity'
Folks have been-en mass- physiologically conditioned to believe such a thing absolutely impossible. needs must then I open a small window in that mental shutter.
Being electricians we work with a substance that has no taste, smell, weight, or mass what it does have however in the form we use it is 'force'.
The origins of a deal of the engineering we use everyday then comes down to force laws.
Maxwell's cork screw rule, Flemming's RH and LH rules connect here too. These in turn hinge on the Lorenz /Einstein force law.
That in turn leads to consideration of the smallest of things the atom . To put this in a simple way thats designed to provoke
THERE IS NO UNIFIED FIELD THEORY AND NEVER HAS BEEN
with the inevitable conclusion that what we do know must be WRONG or at the very best like the curates egg only good in parts.
In simple terms many branches of science cannot agree on the effects and they will not consolidate .
The electromagnetic wave is assumed to travel at the speed of light and so its clear that Einsteins special theory of relativity comes into play with one train of thought.
Tesla (for example) didn't engineer the electromagnetic wave for distant wireless communication, he used the electrostatic wave. much faster than the speed of light . In fact pi/2 x speed of light.
This second possible configuration of the atom and everything pertaining was mathematically mapped by brilliant British physicist Paul Dirac. It isn't really necessary to watch this documentary - providing that is that you
a/ clearly understand that what you have been taught is wrong or at best only partly correct and corrupted.
b/ That there is without any doubt an alternative
The illusion
As we lob twin and earth about we no longer consider that we are dealing with effects at the speed of light based on in depth atomic theory ,electrons ,positrons and all the rest.
Before I dare try to progress further with this subject I feel I should point out those who (and still do) suppressed technology and why. Particularly the ways ,used to to blinker people - and why
You perhaps don't realize it but the worlds currencies no longer depend on a 'gold standard' No sir, the world now rock and rolls on the energy standard, which is very much why you don't have a water driven car (for instance).
That transition of a world based on a gold standard to 'an empire' and one based on energy ,wars, threats,murder and huge debt is told in detail by turn coat CIA hit man John Perkins in these three short clips which I invite you to watch
economic hit man 1
economic hit man 2
economic hit man 3
Here then is the foundation stone that is creating such pollution today . cheap clean energy is actively prevented.
IMHO the system is wrong very wrong . I explained that all of you reading this have been educationally and physiologically changed . (I include myself of course) again that was energy connected in a big way many years ago - The world was molded in this image -
How big oil conquered the world
There is another very logical reason why cheap clean free energy isn't available. the very few that form 'the elite' see the world as overpopulated and that population growing exponentially .
literally carved in stone ( The Georgia guide stones) is the stated ambition to reduce and maintain the worlds population at 500,000,000 (an 80% reduction) free cheap clean energy would make this ambition very difficult. give humans better conditions - like all things they are liable to breed even more!
Regardless my focus here is on clean freely available energy I have no love of the politics of eugenics.
If you happen to have a puerile very simplistic view on this subject it will be along the lines of - If this could be done someone else would do it (and become a multi millionaire in the process of course).
A little research will show you many systems have undeniably been developed some are even being used however they are not nor liable to be offered to the great unwashed.
Bertie Einstein tells us
"energy cannot be made or destroyed only transformed from one form to another "
So why pray do we insist on burning destructive materials instead of simply reconverting that which was previously used ?
The next post (questions permitting) will cover one of these suppressed systems which did and can power heavy industry and mines,
It also totally replaces petrol. dating back to Roman times it purifies instead of destroying.
 
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DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
Go on then, I'll bite. What is this suppressed system you talk of, and who is suppressing it?
 

telectrix

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it's obvious that Tesla, along with da Vinci and Newton were Illuminati and in contact with aliens for their extra terrestrial technology. Until we learn how to communicatewith these aliens, we still have to rely on the likes of Scottish Power and British Gas. :confused::confused::confused:
 

Duncan Norman

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Magical
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Teletrix and DPG Thanks for your interest before delving into what you might regard as 'exotic' energy sources it is probably better to regard one that has been running for thousands of years but has been actively suppressed .
As you regard this system consider how you might normally extract energy from falling water ergo with a water wheel or turbine.
This is very different ! The head of water is not lost ! a single bore hole can carry the day - and the whole process repeated - again and again.
It is I know very difficult to make any electrical connection here but it is very much there. (The dielectric of water is radically changing). I'll let Bill Mollison outline this heavy power system which is thousands of years old, and yet uses no energy in the classical sense and has been wiped from libraries and teaching. It is as promised UNDENIABLE
Bill Mollison
The last place left using this technology that might be called 'western based ' was ragged falls in Canada. The power system fed a series of mines supplied the villages and drove the transport system.
I invite you to stop this clip on the opening drawing . Note the outlet water pipe could (as Bill Mollison explains) be configured to also exit via the inlet pipe THERE IS NO LOSS OF HEAD OF WATER. the energy does not come from there!
Ragged shutes
It is then easy to see by the petroleum industry went to such great lengths to shut down this free,clean,extremely powerful energy source which rather than contaminating the environment, purifies the water it uses. - Its not on the agenda .
There are it transpires many systems that can work over unity (in the sense we classically regard energy.)
From the fracture of water into browns gas at resonant frequencies as is being done commercially under the name 'Magnegas' (re-branded Taronis)
to the resonant electrical systems of Tesla ,T.H Moray and many others but they will never I predict be put into the hands of the great stupid unwashed - The milch cows ! - US
Indeed according to the guide stones our fate is to be very different and very soon.
Magnegas
Magnegas which again officially doesn't exist and certainly isn't taught in schools or universities has been known about for many many years. here is a short clip from the Kentucky water car museum (yes fellow sparks there once was a guy with the balls to open a museum exhibiting and running cars and engines that ran entirely on water) It burnt down I believe and the curator probably has a nice comfy hole in the Mojave Desert .
This is a very crude demonstration and there is no attempt to run at resonance so unlike controlled water fracture its consuming energy (Power =V.I.cos φ = 0) would be ideal . switched DC at resonance in a plasma arc.
Santilli experiment
Santilli you might like to think he has rights to this patent and technology. No doubt certain cartels would rather they had total control of it too --- However here is that patent issued in England and the USA in 1898
US603058A - Electrical retort - Google Patents - https://patents.google.com/patent/US603058A/en
seems our grandfathers were kept as dumb and stupid as we are ! good job JD Rockefeller & Co dumbed down then - dumbed down now
Dumbed down --
I should know I've just been working with some electricians who don't seem to know an ohm from a ----ing pot gnome (seems you can buy gold card on ebay or somewhere now) anyway we'll get the society we deserve I guess or rather our sons and daughters will .
 

telectrix

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Esteemed
Surprised you haven't quoted Joseph Newman.
Alfred E. Newman might be more appropriate:
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"electrostatic wave. much faster than the speed of light . In fact pi/2 x speed of light". quoted by op

Where have you had this information from?^^^^^^


Information cannot be transmitted faster than the speed of light:

"Since there is no "retardation" (or aberration) of the apparent position of the source of a gravitational or electric static field when the source moves with constant velocity, the static field "effect" may seem at first glance to be "transmitted" faster than the speed of light. However, uniform motion of the static source may be removed with a change in reference frame, causing the direction of the static field to change immediately, at all distances. This is not a change of position which "propagates", and thus this change cannot be used to transmit information from the source. No information or matter can be FTL-transmitted or propagated from source to receiver/observer by an electromagnetic field"

There are hypothesised particles known as tachyons which may be the exception but these have never been observed in reality and would violate causality so their existance is very unlikely.
 

Duncan Norman

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Magical
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Newman ? no sir as I said I would much rather open with the absolutly undeniable. -
Ragged shutes supplied heavy power for many years in the real world . It is irrefutable and was used by thousands . which is exactly how I want the subject of free energy projected. - To absolutly shut up stupid nay sayers at a stroke
Newman ? who knows I have my opinion however its very easy to treat his work as a circus act and go down a rabbit hole, so I opt not to go there.
I present the absolutly undeniable . In the case of ragged falls It happened !It worked for over 100 years. Its remains are still there! - free! clean! supressed energy simple as - It does can and has happened .
If you think not, you are very wrong . I really don't need to go into any other system, free energy is a binary situation. Here's one that worked and works . Am I prepared to consider other systems (whacko or not) ? yeah I guess but only after this one is acknowledged as free, pure, clean, energy . overunity (if you like)
 

DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
You say it is undeniable and irrefutable. You say the evidence is there. But you also alledge that the evidence has been destroyed and wiped from society. Which is it?

A few YouTube videos and patents do not necessarily provide technical proof. I could show you many YouTube videos, and indeed patents which are clearly ridiculous.

And yes, you are right - it is very easy to teat his work as a circus. I haven't seen his work for a while, but I imagine his latest flywheel must be up to several tons now!

Overunity - good luck.
 

Duncan Norman

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Magical
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
"electrostatic wave. much faster than the speed of light . In fact pi/2 x speed of light". quoted by op

Where have you had this information from?^^^^^^


Information cannot be transmitted faster than the speed of light:

"Since there is no "retardation" (or aberration) of the apparent position of the source of a gravitational or electric static field when the source moves with constant velocity, the static field "effect" may seem at first glance to be "transmitted" faster than the speed of light. However, uniform motion of the static source may be removed with a change in reference frame, causing the direction of the static field to change immediately, at all distances. This is not a change of position which "propagates", and thus this change cannot be used to transmit information from the source. No information or matter can be FTL-transmitted or propagated from source to receiver/observer by an electromagnetic field"

There are hypothesised particles known as tachyons which may be the exception but these have never been observed in reality and would violate causality so their existance is very unlikely.
delighted to answer
Hi Intoelectrics the speed of light is a constant (not a maximum) this information comes from various researchers working in different fields of radio/wireless . (which I did myself at one point.) The radio system we use in this day and age is according to my understanding essentially that developed by Marconi in an effort to circumnavigate some 17 of Nikola Tesla's wireless patents.
The present system is essentially parallel tuned into a resonant antenna , propagation is mostly via transverse wave via the ionosphere with a very small % ground wave, the assumed speed of propagation of the electromagnetic wave is the speed of light.
Tesla's wireless system however used series resonance and was tuned to a resonant ground antenna. propagation is mostly via the longitudinal wave via the ground plain. with a very small ionospheric % transfer. the speed of transmission is pi/2 x speed of light. Transmission being via the electrostatic wave
FYI here is that that transmission system described and demonstrated many years ago now by Eric Dollard although it been substantiated many times by different researchers .
faster than light
kind regards Duncan
Post automatically merged:

You say it is undeniable and irrefutable. You say the evidence is there. But you also alledge that the evidence has been destroyed and wiped from society. Which is it?

A few YouTube videos and patents do not necessarily provide technical proof. I could show you many YouTube videos, and indeed patents which are clearly ridiculous.

And yes, you are right - it is very easy to teat his work as a circus. I haven't seen his work for a while, but I imagine his latest flywheel must be up to several tons now!

Overunity - good luck.
I didn't say it had been totally wiped from society although they had a bloody go - as Mollison tells us.
As for this wheel thing - not interested in diversion right now thanks all the same! as for overunity thats not luck - it is so - I 've just shown you free- clean - energy and it only needs one! to rock your boat
so please note it well . Its there and its not complex or hard to understand . (unless you want to make it so) It can get much deeper of course but why go there? Its free energy its clean ,easy to understand -- It works

kind regards Duncan
 
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DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
I wasn't trying to divert things, sorry, its just that Newman amuses me.

I'm assuming that you have a system set up producing power for yourself?
 

BruvDunk

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Arms
Interesting and surely makes a change from ' Do I need an earth stake for my garage supply'

Always assumed when the fossil fuels eventually run low we will driving around in water powered cars....
 

telectrix

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Interesting and surely makes a change from ' Do I need an earth stake for my garage supply'

Always assumed when the fossil fuels eventually run low we will driving around in water powered cars....
we had water powered cars over 100 years ago. they were steam engined.
 

Duncan Norman

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Magical
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Hi again DPG - I do have some small systems that work to my satisfaction although I have never tried to totally power a fully functional home (for example) Its really just a hobby and to be honest I'm far more interested in these amazing researchers (who's time of fame will come I'm sure). I have met some of them ,spoken to others and you can take it from me there's one hell of a lot of smoke and mirrors to get through before you meet a 'real person' with a real system
There's a whole unwritten history running quietly in the background going far back into time.
As for high power systems I wouldn't be at all comfortable using one to keep myself cozy whilst my 84 year old neighbors struggle to keep one room warm.
Its not really an engineering thing anyway it rather looks like a long term control system being put in place. and energy will soon be - a super tax!.
Global warming ? what if this is true ? (for instance) HAARP
you see DPG what tends to bother me is not one possibility (free energy perhaps) or even historically two (perhaps the doings of John D Rockefeller) No its when the links are all there and join all these things together - none of which should be there, or more importantly allowed to be there in any shape of form. .
yet when you search and dig - there they are.
Its a hobby for me me apart from that its a society thing - alas society doesn't seem to want to wake up to the possibility so in due course I've no doubt it will reap what it deserves .
 

DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
As for high power systems I wouldn't be at all comfortable using one to keep myself cozy whilst my 84 year old neighbors struggle to keep one room warm.
But surely you would be able to make one for your friends/neighbours also - they would gladly pay for it if it did indeed provide them with free energy.
 

egg67

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Arms
Esteemed
So if you take A as the start point x it by the star point of C then add the water ( which has to be cleaned first so it runs quickly) do you then have to add H-Q to get the right orientation to allow for P to act as a momentum enhancer to allow for the fact that at some point you need to add blue dye to make the water more blue ( thus allowing for dispersion of said blue dye within the power producing sauce).
If we take a look at D.T’s thinking on this subject we will find that A+the star point of C+H-Q will give as a answer of,

wait for it


A1

Do I win the competition
Or should I just get my coat
 

Duncan Norman

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Magical
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
we had water powered cars over 100 years ago. they were steam engined.
afraid thats not water power (as well you know) very inefficient use of fossil fuels !
If you'd like to research water powered cars and the silenced researchers try these few - just off the cuff .I have already posted that there was a museum which demonstrated water cars and engines I was quickly to discover this technology has been done not once or twice but hundreds of times . As far as most researchers were concerned the Public execution of Stan Meyer signified the 'end of the line' As I think I pointed out before society it probably about to get what it deserves.
Stan made this short news clip
this skit on that clip tells the story of Stan's fate
regardless if you wish to seriously research water fracture I regard the following as a small credible list to start you off although there are many many more.
Ruggero Santilli
Anrija putarich
Charles Pogue
Henry Garrett
Bob Boyce
John Nunnerley
kind regards Duncan
 
But not 100mph spaceship style ones that make a zing noise as they shoot past you, whilst Alexa drives and you sit there supping your beer.
Only 'cos we stopped developing them... Steam is still the best way to launch aircraft from aircraft carriers !
 

Duncan Norman

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Magical
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  • #20
But surely you would be able to make one for your friends/neighbours also - they would gladly pay for it if it did indeed provide them with free energy.
It just doesn't pan out like that DPG , As things stand if you (or anyone else for that matter) wants free energy then your going to have to learn about it and then make it yourself. many of these researchers have done exactly what I have described . some have been 'bought off' some murdered (as exampled above) most have been threatened or had their patents 'ringed' . one researcher I worked with recently had his son Mark hit and run , (turned into a vegatable) and was then asked if he 'wanted more treatment regarding his wife' No thats not my game DPG as I say its just an interesting hobby. - thats all. when society is altered to such a point that researchers can openly develop these systems thats a different matter. It will also be a very different world.
 
delighted to answer
Hi Intoelectrics the speed of light is a constant (not a maximum) this information comes from various researchers working in different fields of radio/wireless . (which I did myself at one point.) The radio system we use in this day and age is according to my understanding essentially that developed by Marconi in an effort to circumnavigate some 17 of Nikola Tesla's wireless patents.
The present system is essentially parallel tuned into a resonant antenna , propagation is mostly via transverse wave via the ionosphere with a very small % ground wave, the assumed speed of propagation of the electromagnetic wave is the speed of light.
Tesla's wireless system however used series resonance and was tuned to a resonant ground antenna. propagation is mostly via the longitudinal wave via the ground plain. with a very small ionospheric % transfer. the speed of transmission is pi/2 x speed of light. Transmission being via the electrostatic wave
FYI here is that that transmission system described and demonstrated many years ago now by Eric Dollard although it been substantiated many times by different researchers .
faster than light
kind regards Duncan
I agree, in that the speed of light is a constant not a limit. However for all intent purposes it is a limit since information cannot be transferred faster than light else it would violate causality.

There are a number of effects that appear to be travelling faster than light:- the expansion of the universe at the far observable reaches where galaxies are accelerating apart the distance between them is increasing faster than the light can propagate. In quantum mechanics sub atomic particle pairs can be separated by large distances and once the spin of one particle is observed you know instantly what the spin of the other particle is. This effect is commonly known as "spooky action at a distance". But in both scenarios any useful information cannot be transferred faster than light so therefore causality is not violated.
 

DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
If it is proven technology, and you yourself have made it work, then I still don't understand why you don't use it to power your home. If you are concerned about your 80 year old neighbour, then Give her the money you have saved on your fuel bills.
 
I agree, in that the speed of light is a constant not a limit. However for all intent purposes it is a limit since information cannot be transferred faster than light else it would violate causality.

There are a number of effects that appear to be travelling faster than light:- the expansion of the universe at the far observable reaches where galaxies are accelerating apart the distance between them is increasing faster than the light can propagate. In quantum mechanics sub atomic particle pairs can be separated by large distances and once the spin of one particle is observed you know instantly what the spin of the other particle is. This effect is commonly known as "spooky action at a distance". But in both scenarios any useful information cannot be transferred faster than light so therefore causality is not violated.
There is much we do not understand about the universe

The galaxies themselves are not accelerating in my opinion they are stationary however the space time grid which the galaxies are fixed to is increasing in size thus the 2 galaxies are moving apart .

Is space some kind of quantum grid ?

Does time exist without an observer ?

Does anything exist without an observer ?

Is the quantum grid dark matter ?

Is the whole thing a simulation ?
 
There is much we do not understand about the universe

The galaxies themselves are not accelerating in my opinion they are stationary however the space time grid which the galaxies are fixed to is increasing in size thus the 2 galaxies are moving apart .

Is space some kind of quantum grid ?

Does time exist without an observer ?

Does anything exist without an observer ?

Is the quantum grid dark matter ?

Is the whole thing a simulation ?
Your opening statement is very true.

Your idea of stationary galaxies pinned to an increasing space time grid is pretty much the mainstream model but from a different perspective. Either way the galaxies are "moving" apart due to space increasing between them. The apparent "acceleration" is due to the observation that the further away galaxies are the faster apart they are travelling, or as per your model the greater the space is increasing between them. which ever way you want to look at it the effects are the same - galaxies are moving apart very quickly and some distant ones faster than light.
 

darkwood

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When I have time, i will read through this thread but straight away I see many errors, false claims, baseless conspiracy and gross misinterpretation of science, what it suggests and how to take on board that information.

You use a classic method to shore up your mindset here similar to how religious people would claim that because science cannot as of yet explain what came before the big bang then it could only be the result of intelligent interaction i.e. a God, now although this example is not what you are claiming, you are using the same approach to justify your beliefs, in fact Tesla's work and finding are well understood, nothing has been lost or buried and to the contrary we now have a better understanding of the physics of his discoveries than he could ever possibly imagine.
Like before in a previous thread, I find it almost surprising that you choose a forum of mainly career minded people who have a better understanding of electrical theory and physics to aim what I can only comprehend as your somewhat deluded ideas... now do not get me wrong here, some of your content actually does have some foundation but that in itself does not make everything else you claim to be correct- it is the most common conspiracy theorist failure, the fact they may actually latch on to something that turns out to be true so they apply this result to the other 99% of there claims... it is called cognitive dissonance.
 
The amazing thing about EM waves is they propagate via an energy transfer / oscillation between 2 states , electrostatic - like a build up of voltage ,and electro-magnetic -like a build up of current . There is plenty of space between atoms for them to wiggle - plenty of un-found mass exists in the universe - it is this that probably interacts with EM waves in a vacuum .
(So maybe an "either"does exist)
The only area that comes close to supporting faster than light speed interactions is Quantum Entanglement.
I'm sure Nikola Tesla's "Electro-static" beliefs were convenient for Patent purposes.
A persuasive argument MAY have got round them then -NOT NOW-.
There is no conspiracy -Just poor / aged / past its sell by date science.
(Anyone who knows a bit of electronics understands where the energy goes when you connect a charged capacitor across a suitably sized coil of wire. ) ..
The physics required to recover lost EM waves may have lead to negative comments about people who are concerned about "radiation" needing to build personal faraday cages.
 

Duncan Norman

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Magical
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
sorry to be off thread for a while folks, some containment beckoned - (Basketeering.)
Glad to see some interest in the subject of 'free' clean energy as exemplified by The Trompe.. I hope it is very apparent to all readers that free clean engineer-able alternatives are available - and have been as Mollison tells us intentionally and aggressively suppressed. It applies to other energy systems too obviously .
There are some I'm sad to see who are rather more concerned with what I might be doing personally with free energy . I'll tell you now if my home were powered by exotic means I certainly wouldn't admit it on open forum.
Personal Faraday cages ? I could certainly see some advantage regarding EM noise which makes some folks very ill, however a Faraday cage has absolutely no effect on the longitudinal wave - It passes straight through any cage or box.
why post such information on an electricians forum ? Its an electrical effect although I guess at first glance a 'free energy forum' might seem more appropriate - It isn't the forums have been infiltrated and a deal of the members and management are in the pay of the cartels . There is evidence that the forums themselves are started and are run by 'big oil' Here the connection is indelibly made. It is obviously with the intention of dis-information and obfuscation and is a very effective control .

free energy Hi Jacked

jackhammer what a list of questions . such as have confused far better minds than mine . luckily I don't really have to consider each examples in depth only note well that there is a viable alternative and so what is taken as hard and fast 'laws' certainly are not. As is quite rightly noted there's a huge amount we don't know which is why some of these machines can and do work .

endothermic electrical energy

I have re- transmitted a wireless station on a longitudinal wave and received the station on a radio inside a closed dustbin . so much for the Faraday cage.
deluded ? perhaps we all have been and its only a case of - to what extent
 
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There is evidence that the forums themselves are started and are run by 'big oil'
I'm sure this forum has its own origins , "spreading " training , developing on from Tiling / Plumbing + other trades @Dan
Helping beginners into the trade ! (and a Pub to relax in)
..Some electronics know how does help in understanding weird stray capacitance effects..
 

Duncan Norman

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Magical
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  • #29
Oh I'm quite sure this forum is 'as presented' Its rather forums dedicated to 'overunity' and free energy which have been hi jacked as the provided link makes clear .
The idea is to keep folks dumbed down regarding alternate energy . and yes it is a very good idea to read and watch the information provided before commenting. (whoever observed that)
 

DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
So now you feel you have 'debunked' the Faraday Cage theory with your dustbin experiment? I suspect you may need to do some more in depth experimenting on that one.

You sort of side stepped my point about why people who discover this free energy never seem to use it themselves for various reasons. In fact, you and others with very similar ideas and styles of writing avoid most decent points put forward by the old favourites of being physically attacked by BP et al. or that there was evidence, but it has been redacted by whoever.
 
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