Full time work...or is it.

[ed-ectrician]

I wondered if this is common practice. I work for an (unnamed) 'property maintenance' firm full time. I.E they got me a van and pay for everything with that although I have to pay half the diesel bah humbug! but am allowed to use it outside work. We are basically doing a load of refurbs and i am the sparky doing the rewires but also being called out to do boring little bits too. Effectively i am full time. BUT we arent paid PAYE, we're on the CIS so technically subbing for this firm. Now I am pretty sure that you arent supposed to do this, you should only sub for 13 weeks for the same firm, now i know I wont get in trouble for this but the firm's been working like this for the past (more than) ten years so obviously the guvnor knows a loophole I dont or he'd be getting done for evading paying employers NI by now!

The firm want to have their cake and eat it in my opinion - i.e have blokes working fulltime so I'm not taking a weeek off to do my own stuff but not have to bother with holidays/sick pay etc. If I did start taking time off for private jobs then no doubt they'd get someone else in who was willing to work for them full time but technically as i am subbing i can do whatever i please, I'm not PAYE! Genuine holidays are different but i can only take so many holidays before they start wondering if i am off doing my own jobs

i was wondering is this a bit **** taking of them or just standard in the trade? I get paid an OK rate i think (for an employee!) at £132 a day. This is in London. I only spend about £20 a week of my own cash on the 50% share of diesel so not a huge outgoing - plus i use the van outside for errands and little foreigners in the evenings.

Thoughts fellas?

Ed

 

[Spark1979]

there are ways round the paye side as a guy i work for does the same, except i do little of my own work too, and i have my own van etc etc, the only problem i find is when they have nothing on thats that so to speak and you have nothing on either (have their cake and eat it), but lets be honest most employers do that too now. does seem to be property people too

 

[Jay Sparks]

Ive just applied for a subby job. The contract said, on going, so I ask the guy, roughly how long and he said they have over 3500 houses to PIR and he wants 5 a day doing, between a few of us testing, so at 25 tests a week (5 days), the contract will last 140 weeks, so over 2 years.

Ive also heard you can only sub for a firm for a set amount of time before they either lay you off, or the set you on as PAYE.
At the end of the day, as long as were making a living for as long as possible, without breaking the law, let the firm worry about it!!lol

Jay

 

[Adam W]

I was working self-employed via an agency for the same company for over a year before they took me on PAYE, which seems to be their standard procedure.

 

[ed-ectrician]

Jay i would lose my mind doing PIRs all day every day for two years!! 5 a day, that's optimistic. Work is work though eh. Take the **** you're given while it's there

 

[oldtimer]

Jay i would lose my mind doing PIRs all day every day for two years!! 5 a day, that's optimistic. Work is work though eh. Take the **** you're given while it's there

5 a day aye right yet again where is the Schemie in this and if anything is said they will defend this practice because they are as guilty as the company they badged. I am trying to stay positive for the New Year but the Schemies have allowed our industry to basically be fragmented to suit their own agenda just like the fiscal cliff they are more interested in their short term profit rather than implement a 20 year plan where if it works out someone else will get credit

 

[Jay Sparks]

5 a day aye right yet again where is the Schemie in this and if anything is said they will defend this practice because they are as guilty as the company they badged. I am trying to stay positive for the New Year but the Schemies have allowed our industry to basically be fragmented to suit their own agenda just like the fiscal cliff they are more interested in their short term profit rather than implement a 20 year plan where if it works out someone else will get credit

If you read my thread correctly, I said 5 day between a few of us (I think there will be 3 of us altogether), that will be 2 each. Now, I am quick at what I do, just ask the wife but I know for a fact I could not do 5 a day on my own, unless I did it wrong and cut corners. Now 2 a day is quite easy, especially as most of the housing will be 2 bedroom semis.

And yes ed, your right, it does drive you mad. Last year I had a simular contract to do 10 a week, got a bit boring after the first 100 but I still did bits & bats of installation work to keep me sain. But as you say, work is work and it pays the bills and gets me to the pub once a week, away from the wife.lol


Jay

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is no minimum time limit for being considered by HMRC as employed.
If you start a job, which HMRC consider you as being employed, then you are employed.
The criterea (as far as I'm aware) for being considered as self employed, is that you dictate when, where, how much for and how many hours you work.
If your 'employer' offers you a job at such a such a place and you say you don't fancy it. Fine.
However if they then say your sacked, that's another matter.
Of course most of these firms which employ 'subbies' are basically breaking the law.
Unless they get reported, HMRC won't do sod all about them though.

 

[SYKRAPS]

I think that doing the work on a price rather than n hourly rate is one loop hole used by firms using subbies alot.......this way no hours are recorded

 

[oldtimer]

HMRC want 3 different sources of earnings from you if you are self employed this is to stop someone taking self employed status with only one source of income and you are right they don't police it very well but woa betide you if they pull you in for an audit and then find you are on SE status when you are working for one firm they will chase you for the expenses you claimed and the firm for the employers National Insurance

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As far as I'm aware, even as 'employed', you are entitled to claim some expenses.
I believe the only one you would not be able to claim would be travel to and from work.

 

[Paul.M]

The 13 week myth is all about your rights and entitlements. If you are a suby or agency and been in employment at the same place of work/or firm, after 13 weeks you are entitled to all the benefits of a PAYE employee eg holiday and sick pay etc.

 

[Jay Sparks]

The 13 week myth is all about your rights and entitlements. If you are a suby or agency and been in employment at the same place of work/or firm, after 13 weeks you are entitled to all the benefits of a PAYE employee eg holiday and sick pay etc.

Now then paul, hows it going? Happy new year fella!!!

The only prob with this, is, as soon as youve done the 13 weeks and you mention the benefits to your employer, your gone :rockon:


Jay

 

[Paul.M]

Now then paul, hows it going? Happy new year fella!!!

The only prob with this, is, as soon as youve done the 13 weeks and you mention the benefits to your employer, your gone :rockon:


Jay

I'm very well Jay, happy new year to you to and I hope the testing job is good work for you.


The employees know this rule about the 13 weeks and thats why I got moved onto other work/roles twice last year. Once as agency and once as s/e suby. The agency job I was'nt bothered about, only supposed to be on site 2 weeks to cover someones holiday leave but they kept me on for 3 months. Bet I was getting paid less than him with the holiday entitlement lol

 

[Robert Turnbull]

I've always been a subbie and have worked for firms for 2 year periods some times. One firm did their paperwork so it looked like you'd worked for set prices rather that day rates. Some of these firms were big ish 20-100 subbies depending on jobs on.

But to the O/P your day rates on the low side but not to bad. You've got a van and half the fuel paid RESULT times are tough I was looking for a London start for months, so I decided to start on my own locally (Essex).

£150 was the usual rate but I could pay £70 quid a week in fuel, and £50 parking and racking up miles on my own van + running cost.

Keep you head down an enjoy