Is Nest a weather compensating system?

[Spunkywads26]

As the title says........

I ask as a plumber/gas safe guy wants to fit a new Worcester/Bosch in my moms house and has said he is going to fit a Honeywell weather compensating controls system. However I would rather my mom have the Nest as it is really easy to use. The plumber guy then got a bit rowdy and says he will only sign off the job if I can prove the Nest is weather compensating. Bloody wet pants!!!

 

[davesparks]

Nest is far more intelligent than a basic weather compensation system, and far easier to understand and use for the end user.

As far as I know the Nest provides for greater efficiency than the minimum required for heating controls currently. Your plumber is probably confused because weather compensation is one of the options for achieving compliance, whereas they will be reading it as a requirement (I’ve had this battle with them)

 

[Spunkywads26]

Nest is far more intelligent than a basic weather compensation system, and far easier to understand and use for the end user.

As far as I know the Nest provides for greater efficiency than the minimum required for heating controls currently. Your plumber is probably confused because weather compensation is one of the options for achieving compliance, whereas they will be reading it as a requirement (I’ve had this battle with them)

Thx Dave.

I've had a bit of a google about and come across the boiler plus rules which came into force April. You can choose between 4 types of control of which weather compensation and smart controls are 2 types.

 

[Last plumber]

Thx Dave.

I've had a bit of a google about and come across the boiler plus rules which came into force April. You can choose between 4 types of control of which weather compensation and smart controls are 2 types.

I take it this is a combi?
Nest will do if that's what you'd prefer.
They are Boiler plus compliant.
You're the customer!

 

[PJElectricalSW]

Agree with the others, Nest is a self learning and optimising stat which complies with BoilerPlus. If I remember the paragraph it is something like 'smart' controls must be time and temperature programmable and either an online hub controlled system with a 'GeoFencing' style feature or a self learning 'optimising' mode that learns when to switch on.

Boiler plus gives me cold sweats...

 

[Last plumber]

Why?
Is it the same reason it makes my blood boil?
I have a customer at the moment who will need to spend a small fortune in order to gain relatively nothing in order to comply with it.

 

[Last plumber]

Boiler plus gives me cold sweats...

Why?
Is it the same reason it makes my blood boil?
I have a customer at the moment who will need to spend a small fortune to gain relatively nothing in order to comply with it.

 

[Corbs]

I take it this is a combi?
Nest will do if that's what you'd prefer.
They are Boiler plus compliant.
You're the customer!

You sure ? I think it's only compliant if it's connected via the ot ports

Worcester own comfort controls are compliant

 

[Last plumber]

You sure ? I think it's only compliant if it's connected via the ot ports

Worcester own comfort controls are compliant

Well that's the way I understand it, yes.

The Nest, Hive etc take information from (3 I think) local weather stations and use that information in conjunction with the room temperature that the sensor is measuring to control the Boiler/Heating (on/off). They also monitor your usage and 'learn' how you like to use the Heating in your home.

Other smart devices like the V-smart work the same way as in use of local weather stations but they will also give load comp/a type of weather comp due to the e-bus connection/language.
As you know 'real' weather comp controls will have an outside temp sensor as well as inside.
So the Boiler manufacturers own product, if hard wired in will give additional efficiency probably but the Nest and Hive are still compliant.
The legislation says 'weather comp, load comp, flue gas recycling, Smart controls with automation and optimisation functions'.

Here's the legislation

The Nest has Automation and Optimisation features, so yes, it complies. See page 12.

 

[PJElectricalSW]

Why?
Is it the same reason it makes my blood boil?

Probably the same reason, the smoke and mirrors that the boiler manufacturers are putting out there and the complete farce in its introduction. The UK consumer and installers are uneducated in the pros and cons of each BP technology and how to integrate two or more together are slim.

Every time someone (salesperson) in my firm asks about boiler plus and I start the conversation with a fake smile as a cold shudder shoots from head to toe.

 

[Last plumber]

Probably the same reason, the smoke and mirrors that the boiler manufacturers are putting out there and the complete farce in its introduction. The UK consumer and installers are uneducated in the pros and cons of each BP technology and how to integrate two or more together are slim.

Every time someone (salesperson) in my firm asks about boiler plus and I start the conversation with a fake smile as a cold shudder shoots from head to toe.

I agree. I have just emailed the BEIS and asked them to give my customer an explanation as to why he should pay as much as he will need to in order to comply.
Boring story so I won't bother typing it out but in this scenario it will cost him not far off a grand now to save £30 PA (estimated/roughly).
I think to intimidate him with a £5000 fine and threaten us with an 'unknown' fine is unfair.

I await the response.
I won't be holding my breath though.

 

[PJElectricalSW]

I do wonder if boilerplus can be satisfied for many with a £70 quid heatmiser neoStat or similar. I do not remember reading anywhere about every heating zone has to be smart controlled so just one heating zone with optimum start feature enabled would suffice?

Heatmiser neoStat V2 - Programmable Thermostat - https://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/heatmiser-neostat-v2-programmable-thermostat/

 

[Last plumber]

I do wonder if boilerplus can be satisfied for many with a £70 quid heatmiser neoStat or similar. I do not remember reading anywhere about every heating zone has to be smart controlled so just one heating zone with optimum start feature enabled would suffice?

Heatmiser neoStat V2 - Programmable Thermostat - https://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/heatmiser-neostat-v2-programmable-thermostat/

Sounds possible, I need to read it when I get a mo!
Thanks for the link, I use their controls now and then, they are not far from me. The things I have used have worked very well and are reasonably priced too. The staff are helpful on technical side as well.

 

[PJElectricalSW]

Sounds possible, I need to read it when I get a mo!
Thanks for the link, I use their controls now and then, they are not far from me. The things I have used have worked very well and are reasonably priced too. The staff are helpful on technical side as well.

As an alternative to Heatmiser and for your information really I had a very good and interesting meeting with Danfoss yesterday, helpful bunch of chaps.

They made me aware of the finer details of load compensation and enhanced load compensation. The former is 'accepted' whereas the latter is the over complicated and monopolized version put together by the boiler manufacturers.
Their version was very clever, it divides the hour into 6 and monitors the set temp vs the actual. It self learns the response time and pulses the boiler to teach the target temp. This reduces the overshoot issue and ticks the box for load compensation.
Whilst I agreed it works I wasn't entirely sure that this is load compensation as boiler plus describes it but it does work and works for multi zones. Perfect for under floor heating or single zones.

I will keep you posted about actual compliance in due course.