Lift Control Panel Rebuild

[chrispy1973]

Hi

I work for a Manufacturing company based in Cheshire East, in our factory we have a 1940's era 10CWT Lift manufactured by Evans Lifts - which is now used only for goods. Recently we have had some issues with the lift blowing the fuse in the main isolator. Investigation by our lift maintenance company found the fault to be located on the lift control board, also vintage and dating back to the 40's.

I have linked to an image of the panel here:- http://www.nortek.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Lift-Control2.jpg

As you can probably see from the image, the old dashpot timers have leaked oil, which is believed to be the cause of the fault.

Naturally, the lift company want to install a brand new lift, however given that we have already spent a lot of money on replacing the other mechanical parts on the lift we are wondering whether the lift could be returned to service by having the old fashioned contactors and timers replaced one by one on the original panel, and I have been asked to try and find an Industrial Electrician or one with experience of working on industrial control panels who may be willing to quote for the work involved?.

So my question is, would this work be possible? and does anybody here carry out this kind of work, and on the off-chance would anybody be willing to come and take a look in order to quote for the work?.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

-Chris

 

[DPG]

I imagine it would be a challenge to make sure any safety regulations are complied with.

By the way, don't throw the old panel away!

 

[Rockingit]

I'd imagine that the best way forward would be to go to a bespoke electronics firm with the old one, get them to fashion a replica using modern parts and design and then take the whole thing to the lift manufacturer and get them to do all the approvals on it for use. Sounds..... tedious and expensive.

 

[UNG]

If the dashpots are leaking can they not be refurbed and keep the panel in use
It is a good while since I have worked on any kit with dashpots and the only thing that failed was the seals

 

[DPG]

If the dashpots are leaking can they not be refurbed and keep the panel in use

Be nice to keep it in use. Maybe a perspex panel in front of it though.

 

[James]

A good lift maintenance company should be able to quote for a new control panel.

just because it is a goods only lift does not mean that many safety requirements can be overlooked.

I have come across many old lifts that have had new controls added.

 

[Zerax]

Personally... I'd ping John Ward (Flameport)... he's an electrical guru and has a passion for lifts... would be interesting to see what his thoughts are.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I actually have some spares for those Evans AC controllers and a very similar one here for a 2-speed, although with Londex relays for the floor selection and escapement timers instead of dashpots e.g. on the DJR and rotor accelerator.

As mentioned above, although it is undoubtedly possible to repair the controller, for insurance and safety reasons it might not be practical for you to undertake a DIY repair. It might be more productive to replace the controller outright and maybe the floor selector.

 

[Lister1987]

I actually have some spares for those Evans AC controllers and a very similar one here for a 2-speed, although with Londex relays for the floor selection and escapement timers instead of dashpots e.g. on the DJR and rotor accelerator.

As mentioned above, although it is undoubtedly possible to repair the controller, for insurance and safety reasons it might not be practical for you to undertake a DIY repair. It might be more productive to replace the controller outright and maybe the floor selector.

I was going to say send it to Lucien or Marconi, or JW but I don't think you'd get it back ?

 

[Darkwood]

I notice also what looks like carbonisation on the insulated mount board just above centre although I could be wrong as it doesn't convey well in a photo, this is a possible cause of recent short outs as it doesn't seem to have been addressed, be careful with this stuff however as it could be carcinogenic so don't go trying to grind it out and fill it back out unless you know what you are doing, this is not something you can teach yourself across the internet and the consequences of doing it wrong can be deadly + it's just an observation that would need verification on site.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Yes, I mentioned that in a chat with the OP, looks like one of the floor relays has flashed over between two arms, possibly where the pigtail has got caught up against the adjacent contact and the arc has spread down to the contacts below.

Also a good point about the panel material, if it is Sindanyo rather than slate it should not be interfered with, although it is low hazard when intact because it is so well impregnated and vulcanised into a solid mass.

 

[chrispy1973]

Thanks for the interest / comments / advice / messages in relation to my original post.

In relation to the question regarding the carbonisation, the following was included on the report supplied by the lift maintenance company who attended the site and investigated the blowing main fuse.

Carried out a technical visit to further investigate the main fuses blowing as soon as control panel is energised. The top RH contactor dampener pot has leaked oil over the contactors and terminal connections causing a short circuit on multiple connections. Also C contactor has clear signs of arc flashing and burn marks.

And this was one option in relation to their suggested repair

1. Strip down existing contactors within controller
2. Clean all excess oil from contacts and panel
3. Examine the contactors for damage and integrity of the wiring
4. Reassemble all components and carry out electrical testing
5. Carry out testing on completion

However there was nothing offered, in relation to any modernisation of the existing panel, or indeed even replacing the leaking seals on the pots, so I suspect a short term fix, if it even fixed it at all.

The other, second option is ripping out most of the original equipment and basically fitting what would essentially be a new lift!.

The idea of approaching a qualified Industrial / Commercial Electrician was purely to see if there was a workable halfway solution between the two options given by the Lift Maintenance company. In short, a more improved level of refurbishment of the panel than that offered by the Lift Company - and I was asked to make enquiries with Electrical Contractors with a view to the possibility of replacing the old style contactors / relays & timers with their modern equivalent, but this is now looking unlikely.

Thanks.

 

[Darkwood]

The general guide is if you alter change or upgrade control equipment the whole install has to meet current electrical and safety standards, you are however allowed to replace like for like faulty or damaged gear without have to upgrade everything, this is only practical up to a certain age or the availability of spares, the lift itself even in this aged state would still need regular checks and testing to ensure it's safe to use.

 

[westward10]

Couple of years ago before it was decommissioned and removed this mint looking panel probably has the parts you need unfortunately gone now.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Pity, I could have done with some bits from that. Those accelerating contactors (R1 and R2) seem to have air dashpots rather than the oil types used on the OP's controller, but they are for different functions. The resistance steps each need a delay of only a second or two, whereas the OP's double-journey relay and car control priority timer (which is what I assume the top two with dashpots are) need much longer and therefore oil rather than air.

I think the halfway house the OP needs is a replacement electronic controller. The traction hoist, car and running gear can all be retained, and possibly the cam floor selector, although it might be preferable to replace that or put up a tape etc.

But, oil doesn't usually cause shorts. Yes, the dashpot glands need sorting but the diagnosis seems shaky to me. The splash across the control relays won't blow the fuse in the supply, only the control DC. fuse. The Up and Down contactors are double-interlocked so even a misoperation of the collect relays can't pull them both in at once. I wonder exactly what has caused the blown fuse. Regardless, I bet I could get another 50 years out of that controller. That is not necessarily a sound commercial approach, merely a comment on the repairability.

 

[DPG]

Couple of years ago before it was decommissioned and removed this mintView attachment 85706 looking panel probably has the parts you need unfortunately gone now.

Lovely. And it's obviously been looked after. Is it a slate backboard?

 

[westward10]

Lovely. And it's obviously been looked after. Is it a slate backboard?

Not sure about the back panel but it was in a cabinet with a glass paneled door which probably explains its condition.