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M

mathias

Hello!
Are there any experts out there that could give an easy summary of the different pluss and minus with: fluorescent HF,fluorescent F, LED.

With respect to inrush, problems due to start up of many lights simultaneously(voltage drop), lifetime, Radio noise etc, harmonic and n leader current.

Anyone?
 
Personally I would look on the web for info. Far too wide-ranging a question to ask on a forum in my opinion. Bit unfair to expect people to type many paragraphs of info out for you.
Daz
 
Perhaps my answer was a little unfair - I suppose you are at least limiting it to industrial use. Daz
 
Well of course I can do that. But much of the stuff you find online are not exactly based on peoples experience.
But still what are the main plus and minus fluorescent HF,fluorescent F, LED. Due to inrush, problems due to start up of many lights simultaneously(voltage drop).

As far as I have read LED are better on everything except the price and lifetime on electronics?
Anyone else?

 
Why not ask your local wholesalers for literature on any lighting you are wanting the info on, you can then contact any manufacturers direct with any questions that you may need answering.
 
Yeah, but I am still asking if anyone has done these evaluations and what kind argumentation they have used?

As I understand there are different opinions about this, and then a forum must be a good place to discuss.
 
Fluorescent lighting in any form now is old hat now really , withe the LED market now well established , the prices have come down quite a lot and all you need is to pick up some brochures and prices at the wholesalers , the 2 big savings to be made are in the running costs and maintenance when choosing LED , the difference in outlay would depend on what your thinking of installing , but LED is available in just about all variants now , if you have existing fluorescent fittings in place you can even fit LED retro fit lamps in their place if you wish , the choice is yours ..


Look up; led ecolights on the web , I have installed thousands of their led lamps over the last 3 years on a nationwide project..
 
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Tanks for the tip, but when you are changing from fluorescent to LED are there any effects on power system you must consider? Like inrush etc
 
Never really had any problems with alterations to existing circuits except one of my teams had an issue on a Schneider unit and the 10A type B was replaced with a type C , when 40W led panels were installed on one job only , all other locations were fed via BMS with timers and contactors controlling existing 16 or 32A type C mcbs which in turn fed a busbar track system with Gregs and 10 A HRC track fuses in them , so all that was existing and we never had an issue with that and simply replaced the fittings or upgraded the fittings to LED only ..
 
Hello!
Are there any experts out there that could give an easy summary of the different pluss and minus with: fluorescent HF,fluorescent F, LED.

With respect to inrush, problems due to start up of many lights simultaneously(voltage drop), lifetime, Radio noise etc, harmonic and n leader current.

Anyone?

There is no easy summary to designing such circuits, too many variables exist from the type and wattage of fitting to the manufacturer of both the light and the overload device you want to use.
I would establish what overload device brand you want to use then contact their tech' department and ask for any info regarding max no of various types of lamp to any given overload device, I have several tech' charts to show this for many brands and is often included in the rear of their catalogues.

You show you have a Masters in Electrical Engineering but do you have any practical experience in this field especially Electrical Installation under the BS7671 - if not then I would work alongside a mentor when designing this who is competent in this area otherwise a minor mistake can be very costly.

In summary then; No! there isn't an easy rule of thumb explanation, you need to know what fitting you are using and what protective devices you have as well as the brand of them, designing such circuits has to be done backwards to normal Electrical circuit design as you need to establish the limits of the protective device first to assess the lighting permitted on it.
 
Typically in large (ish) lighting installations, a dedicated lighting designer is involved. Some wholesalers offer in-house lighting design as part of the sales package.

If you are only installing a few units, then inrush currents shouldn't be a problem, but if you are looking at large commercial premises, then taking advantage of such services would be a pertinent use of your time unless you have specific lighting design experience/ qualifications (which you don't otherwise this thread would not have been started!).
 
Typically in large (ish) lighting installations, a dedicated lighting designer is involved. Some wholesalers offer in-house lighting design as part of the sales package.

If you are only installing a few units, then inrush currents shouldn't be a problem, but if you are looking at large commercial premises, then taking advantage of such services would be a pertinent use of your time unless you have specific lighting design experience/ qualifications (which you don't otherwise this thread would not have been started!).


A bit of back ground knowledge of lux level requirements for workers is good before getting these muppets in as they have messed up twice for me because I assumed they knew and would ask the workforce what kind of jobs they do on the machinery, I sinced specified lux requirements to them when using them as they tend to go with general working level lux requirements and not ask if higher levels maybe required.

Also these guys will only tell you how many fitting you require for coverage been a free service usually thus the design of the installation is still on your lap unless you pay for a full design service from a specialist company who will do all the design aspects.
 
One problem that I have noticed, is that an installation constructed using CFL fittings may not have sufficient means for for cooling LED fittings.
I have been required to install LED fittings into building voids, that I believe have insufficient air circulation which will cause premature failure due to over heating.
I have also had concerns that such installation methods may in fact be fire risks.
 
The issue here is to just replace some old fittings with new ones. There is no need for lux calculations since this is not any critical light(just for lightning of an industrial tunel). The excising light is about 2x36W T8 fluorescent. There are about 20 lights on one circuit. This is defined as an maintenance job, replace 1:1. My fear is just that if a replace with new fittings with other properties the voltage drop during start up might be a problem(i have considered using HF fluorescent T8 lights). I must add there is a very long cable here.

Any one who has experience with this?
 
What is the cable run, length csa and calculated/measured VD of the existing,O/L device type and rating etc etc , VD issues on inrush are usually reserved for motors with high inertia loads etc with long start up duties where cable size may requires compensation to limit the extended VD on starting, it can effect lighting where large banks are switched on all at once. I suspect if VD is fine on existing the will be for new fittings but its the inrush on the OCPD that may cause you problems and this is where you need to do you research and sums.

Are the existing solid ballast control or electronic ballast?
What do you expect to gain using HF flourescent against LED as they both produce a comparable inrush current?

If your asking for help please give as much detail as possible including your findings thus far...you need to design the circuit with existing set-up but using the new fittings and see if it complies; without knowing what fittings you are choosing or all the other info I've listed then we cannot help.

The scope of your question is too variable and your reluctance to answer or provide the info I have kindly asked for means I'm out until you do so....
You require info only the manufacturer of the fittings and OCPD can provide which you haven't even decided on yet!

You hold a Masters degree in Electrical Engineering and should be well trained to solve this and know what info to supply us with for your query, I'll ask again have you experience working to the BS7671 and/or electrical installation work, what area of Engineering were you trained in so we can tailor our answers.

With that Degree you should be the one helping out others with such a question!

Or do what most on here would do and just change them and see if the mcb trips... this is the modern teachings because they no longer do practical design of systems anymore without further education...but can be costly to rectify if it don't work.
 
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Hello again thanks for answer.
To comment back.
We are changing most of the cable (not the first 300 m that are in the ground) and the fittings so the excising lamps are not that interesting. To be able to have protection against short circuits we have to have an cable with higher dimension then the excising. This gives next to no voltage drop on stationary condition. When I use a peak withstand curve from Schneider my results shows that the inrush current would be ok(given 30 A for 500us on each lamp, I have about seven on each phase).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3N2w6pD1NEXRV9NNDRJV0Rsckk/view?usp=sharing

The problem is that the electronic ballast would block if the voltage go to low during start up(7 lamps on each phase). As you pointed out I don't have any experience in this field(As I have worked with high voltage cable systems earlier). The supplier gives only a statement that you have to use contractors to divide up the circuit if you have these problems. That would be a problem here since some of the cable is in the ground and not to be changed. This is possible a stupid question but I don't know how to be sure.
 

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