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Discuss Lighting circuit what to do in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Andy78

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Thanks for the info, although that part of the installation I will not touch. Im concerned with running a new supply (which will have a cpc) to the existing lighting jb which serves the existing lights and switches. Is this recommended or not was the reason for the post.
No. Every part of the job that you include on the cert should be new wiring if you want to keep your nose clean. You can't use any part of the older wiring along any part of the circuit. New from start to finish. You will have created a new circuit for the rooms in question.

If the customer won't have that then toodle pip.
 

westward10

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So your new cable will power the existing part of the circuit then also supply new parts of the circuit.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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So your new cable will power the existing part of the circuit then also supply new parts of the circuit.
No there will be a new circuit for the new rooms, and I will remove the existing circuitry for these rooms from the existing JB.

The circuit that was feeding the upstairs lighting was chopped by the builder when he demolished the rooms and customer wants it reconnected as now there is no lights upstairs. So reconnecting to a JB in loft (with new t&e) that spiders to each room (not the new ones) in cable without cpc is what im considering.
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Basically I wanna bring a new feed (t&e) to the loft JB. None of the existing outgoing wiring from this jb has cpc's.
 
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you can repair like for like to old versions of the regs, but honestly however stubborn this guy is, once 2 or 3 professional sparks tell him he needs a rewire not a repair maybe he'll realise it's not a choice. "It's been fine for 50 years why change it" might take a while to convince, but with no lights he'll have plenty of time to think about it in the dark!
 
If the customer won't listen to reason, walk away.
If he thinks you are trying to rip him off, walk away.
If he is trying to cut cost to the minimum, walk away.
If you are unhappy with the job he wants you to do, walk away.
Let him get a bottom-feeder in, and walk away.
When he pleads with you to come back and sort his mess, walk away.
...and sleep soundly!
 
As soon as you run a new feed for old circuits you are responsible for it.......... walk
If I were you man up and tell him that it needs a complete Rewire and give price to reflect your hard work in doing so. If he doesn’t agree then tell him you can’t do the work because you don’t want to have a guilty conscience in doing something that is completely wrong and you will be liable for. You’ll be the one to blame if something went wrong start from scratch so you know it’s all safe and complient 👍
 

Pete999

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If the customer won't listen to reason, walk away.
If he thinks you are trying to rip him off, walk away.
If he is trying to cut cost to the minimum, walk away.
If you are unhappy with the job he wants you to do, walk away.
Let him get a bottom-feeder in, and walk away.
When he pleads with you to come back and sort his mess, walk away.
...and sleep soundly!
So in essence "Walk away" is that what you are saying Pirate? lol, it's what I would do
 

telectrix

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1. run a new circuit for the new lights. don't touch the old, broken circuit.
2. tell builder to repair the circuit he's cut.
3. EIC for new circuit, with comment that existing circuit needs rewiring.
 
Why not give him a copy of Electrical Safety First Best Practise Guide 1 (to reinforce your advice);


Page 11 gives guidance on connecting existing light circuits, without a cpc. You will note the caveat at indent for domestic or similar premises at 10.7.
First time I’ve seen this guideline on electrical installations looks very good and will learn from it. I’ve just scanned through it and just not sure on couple things sure I’ll have more questions when I read through it properly. I always tell customers that they need Rcd protection especially with bathroom lighting circuits and also sockets that have potential to be used for outdoor purposes which most people tend to plug in extension lead and use pressure washer, hedge trimmer, lawn mower etc yet the guideline on this page states you don’t necessarily need a board change, Rcd protection. I would disagree and say that you do need to I’m basing this on domestic not commercial and industrial as I understand a lot of machinery does not require Rcd protection one of my main priorities when doing work is that consumer unit is up to standard and Rcd protection is provided as additional protection
 

GBDamo

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Subscribed Member
1. run a new circuit for the new lights. don't touch the old, broken circuit.
2. tell builder to repair the circuit he's cut.
3. EIC for new circuit, with comment that existing circuit needs rewiring.
Run the new circuit to a JB next to the old to supply the new lights, complete and cert. Take pictures of how you left it.

Tell customer you're having nothing to do with the old as it's non-compliant and potentiality unsafe and under no circumstances could you condone taking a feed from the new JB to the old JB.
 

Midwest

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First time I’ve seen this guideline on electrical installations looks very good and will learn from it. I’ve just scanned through it and just not sure on couple things sure I’ll have more questions when I read through it properly. I always tell customers that they need Rcd protection especially with bathroom lighting circuits and also sockets that have potential to be used for outdoor purposes which most people tend to plug in extension lead and use pressure washer, hedge trimmer, lawn mower etc yet the guideline on this page states you don’t necessarily need a board change, Rcd protection. I would disagree and say that you do need to I’m basing this on domestic not commercial and industrial as I understand a lot of machinery does not require Rcd protection one of my main priorities when doing work is that consumer unit is up to standard and Rcd protection is provided as additional protection
This best practice guide, probably needs an update.

I need to read it perhaps. I don’t think you can advise a customer that a CU change is required, because the existing doesn’t meet existing regs, if that’s what your saying?

If a CU hasn’t additional protection, it does not mean it’s not suitable for continued service.
 

telectrix

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This best practice guide, probably needs an update.

I need to read it perhaps. I don’t think you can advise a customer that a CU change is required, because the existing doesn’t meet existing regs, if that’s what your saying?

If a CU hasn’t additional protection, it does not mean it’s not suitable for continued service.
thing is, any work that you do needs to comply with current regs, so if you have a CU that is fit for continued use, but does not provide the protection that your new work requires ( e.g. RCD for bathroom/lighting/buried cables in walls, then you have to provide that RCD protection, either by a standalone RCD just to cover your work, or by upgrading CU.

the latter option may cost more, but will make the whole installation safer.
 

Midwest

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thing is, any work that you do needs to comply with current regs, so if you have a CU that is fit for continued use, but does not provide the protection that your new work requires ( e.g. RCD for bathroom/lighting/buried cables in walls, then you have to provide that RCD protection, either by a standalone RCD just to cover your work, or by upgrading CU.

the latter option may cost more, but will make the whole installation safer.
Yep I do know any new work needs to comply; but I'm just wondering if @Grant1987 is suggesting an existing CU needs updating for an existing install, albeit it would make it safer.
 

anthonybragg

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I think that we are detracting regarding the RCD protection and will have to assume that this is complied with for the new part of the installation. Has the OP checked to see if all the lights are standard pendants and batton holders (ie. no class 1 fittings), the switch back boxes are the ones with plastic lugs and there are no metal switch plates?
 

telectrix

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I think that we are detracting regarding the RCD protection and will have to assume that this is complied with for the new part of the installation. Has the OP checked to see if all the lights are standard pendants and batton holders (ie. no class 1 fittings), the switch back boxes are the ones with plastic lugs and there are no metal switch plates?
but what have class 2 fittings got to do with RCD protection? RCDs are for additional,protection. in old speak, protection against direct contact with live parts.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #40
I think that we are detracting regarding the RCD protection and will have to assume that this is complied with for the new part of the installation. Has the OP checked to see if all the lights are standard pendants and batton holders (ie. no class 1 fittings), the switch back boxes are the ones with plastic lugs and there are no metal switch plates?
Was there earlier, had a talk and now rewiring most of the lighting bar (some) of the switchdrops. The one circuit n the bedroom he refusing to rewire does have a standard pendant and switch, and will put nylon 3.5's in switch. I will make a note on EIC about this; not much else I can do, except walk.
 

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