Metal cable ties?

[Crosswire]

Only for fire FP200 fire alarms, or for all cables?

Phoned ECA tech support on this, they couldn't say!

 

[jase]

depends on spec of job?? only ever used them on fp, oh once used them wiring a hotel cos it was in the spec

 

[Adam W]

Someone once told me the reason for metal cable ties on a fire alarm was to keep the cables out of firefighters' way, which begs the question: what about all the other cables?
Likewise using LSF cable to avoid noxious fumes from PVC should they burn in a fire, but running them in PVC conduit.

 

[UNG]

Metal clips and cable ties must be used when fixing FP200, Firetuf etc to maintain it's integrity in fire unlike Pyro which can be clipped with nylon cable ties without a problem

If FP falls from it's fixings the cable can fail prematurely in a fire unlike Pyro which carries on working

It's amazing how many systems you see using FP etc that are not clipped using metal ties or clips

Prysmian Cables FAQs
What clips are required for FP200 Gold®?

The new FP FIREFIX fixing system is the fastest way to install FP 200Gold® cables - using Spit Pulsa® gas nailing technology. The fixings are made from non rusting stainless steel and are LSOH powder coated.

FP FIREFIX is offered in kit form. Each kit includes the necessary parts to install 500 clips- apart from the Spit Pulsa tool (sold separately). This tool uses gas nailing technology to secure the clip to a variety of substrates including: concrete, steel, composite steel decking, masonry and block work.

Copper "P" clips or steel ties can also be used to install FP200®. Plastic or Aluminium clips should not be used as the sole means of support as these will burn during a fire. Reference numbers are shown in our brochure.

Taken from FP 200 Cable FAQs

 

[Crosswire]

Someone once told me the reason for metal cable ties on a fire alarm was to keep the cables out of firefighters' way, which begs the question: what about all the other cables?
Likewise using LSF cable to avoid noxious fumes from PVC should they burn in a fire, but running them in PVC conduit.

This is excactly the reason I was given at work.

I thought only FP200 but boss said all cables due to firefighting reason. Phoned ECA they said metal cable ties were not required for all cables, but were vague on when they should be used.


Enter UNG....

"Metal clips and cable ties must be used when fixing FP200, Firetuf etc to maintain it's integrity in fire unlike Pyro which can be clipped with nylon cable ties without a problem

If FP falls from it's fixings the cable can fail prematurely in a fire unlike Pyro which carries on working"


Very interesting ... is this from BS5839? and where does this firefighting reason come from?

 

[UNG]

This is excactly the reason I was given at work.

I thought only FP200 but boss said all cables due to firefighting reason. Phoned ECA they said metal cable ties were not required for all cables, but were vague on when they should be used.


Enter UNG....

"Metal clips and cable ties must be used when fixing FP200, Firetuf etc to maintain it's integrity in fire unlike Pyro which can be clipped with nylon cable ties without a problem

If FP falls from it's fixings the cable can fail prematurely in a fire unlike Pyro which carries on working"


Very interesting ... is this from BS5839? and where does this firefighting reason come from?

It's something I read in the early days of FP cable but I have not been able to find anything about the fire integrity being compromised if it is not clipped with metal clips. I know Pyrotenax did put a lot of Pyro v's FP stuff out when the fire cable battle started to protect their sales as the premier fire cable

Don't know of any regs, rules or British Standards that all cables have to be clipped with metal ties for firefighting reasons, so I would love to know where this comes from

 

[johna]

BS 5839 Page 71

Methods of cable support should be non-combustible and such that circuit integrity will not be reduced below that afforded by the cable used, and should withstand a similar temperature and duration to that of the cable, while maintaining adequate support.

NOTE 8 In effect, this recommendation precludes the use of plastic cable clips, cable ties or trunking, where these products are the sole means of cable support.

NOTE 9 Experience has shown that collapse of cables, supported only by plastic cable trunking, can create a serious hazard for fire-fighters, who could become entangled in the cables.
[h=1]Frequently Asked Questions - FP200[SUP]®[/SUP] cables[/h]
What clip spacing is required?
Recommended clip spacing’s are given in our brochure and are generally 300mm horizontal and 400mm vertical installation.
[h=2]What clips are required for FP200 Gold[SUP]®[/SUP]?[/h]The new FP FIREFIX fixing system is the fastest way to install FP 200Gold[SUP]®[/SUP] cables - using Spit Pulsa[SUP]®[/SUP] gas nailing technology. The fixings are made from non rusting stainless steel and are LSOH powder coated.

FP FIREFIX is offered in kit form. Each kit includes the necessary parts to install 500 clips- apart from the Spit Pulsa tool (sold separately). This tool uses gas nailing technology to secure the clip to a variety of substrates including: concrete, steel, composite steel decking, masonry and block work.

Copper "P" clips or steel ties can also be used to install FP200[SUP]®[/SUP]. Plastic or Aluminium clips should not be used as the sole means of support as these will burn during a fire. Reference numbers are shown in our brochure.

I hope this makes it clearer.

 

[Engineer54]

Haha.... metal clips, this reminded me of the old ''buckle clips'' that were used for virtually every cable type in there day!! And i might add, the finished job looked a dammed site better than the plastic clips of today...

Oh, and i've never seen MICC cable fixed by anything other than copper or PVC covered copper P clips, or multi cable copper clips etc... I guess these days, it doesn't matter too much what the finished installation looks like by using those plastic circular cable clips!!