UK Niceic Assesment

[banny07]

Hi all. My first niceic assesment for joining is coming soon. I want to show my friends house where I installed new fuse board and installed new smoke alarm circuit. My question is what should I fill in sesign and construction section? should I leave it blank?
The house have no cooker or shower circuit only three final circuits which have 3, 5 and 7 double sockets as well as two lighting circuits with 7 and 8 lighting points .Third circuit has only three smoke/heat alarms. Maximum demand will be around 26Amps?
Any advice will be very helpful. Thanks in advance

 

[banny07]

It is for domestic Installer.

 

[catdog1121]

Fill in your details for the construction section, you just fill it out as an EIC...

As for Max demand, you have 3x 32A circuits? I would say thats more than 26A.. I would not worry about it too much, Your looking for things like showers and cookers. I rewired one of my houses years ago when I was training, just had one ring, added a ring for kitchen, downstairs, upstairs and utility. With all the new circuits Max demand came out to about 112A, in reality it had a 60A fuse, called up the DNO who sent someone round who basically just said well its been like that for years and not blown, it will be fine, if it does blow just say I gave permission to up to to 80A but I doubt you will ever use more than that.

The max demand massively increased due to splitting circuits, but in reality the load had not increased. Just put something realistic, they dont tend to look at it too much during an assessment as they know its a bit silly and its down more to common sense..

 

[banny07]

Fill in your details for the construction section, you just fill it out as an EIC...

As for Max demand, you have 3x 32A circuits? I would say thats more than 26A.. I would not worry about it too much, Your looking for things like showers and cookers. I rewired one of my houses years ago when I was training, just had one ring, added a ring for kitchen, downstairs, upstairs and utility. With all the new circuits Max demand came out to about 112A, in reality it had a 60A fuse, called up the DNO who sent someone round who basically just said well its been like that for years and not blown, it will be fine, if it does blow just say I gave permission to up to to 80A but I doubt you will ever use more than that.

The max demand massively increased due to splitting circuits, but in reality the load had not increased. Just put something realistic, they dont tend to look at it too much during an assessment as they know its a bit silly and its down more to common sense..

Thanks. Should I leave design section Blank? There is also a section asking for"Extent of the Installation covered by this certificate" Should I say "fuseboard and smoke alarm circuit only?" The supply protective device is sealed so Is it okay to put "LIM" in that coloum?any advice is really appericiated.
Thanks

 

[loz2754]

If you designed the smoke alarm circuit and calculated the correct circuit parameters needed for the new consumer unit (please use the correct terminology, it's not a fuse board), and you installed and tested the new circuit and the consumer unit, then you sign all 3 sections. Or use the single signatory form, which combines all 3 roles into 1 to save having to write it all out 3 times.

You're correct in saying that you put in the "extent" box only the bits that you've installed.

If the supply protective device type and rating is unknown, you should determine these details by enquiry from the DNO. It is not permitted to limit an installation certificate. Although you might find your assessor will let that go, as it's a common problem.

Best of luck with your assessment.

 

[banny07]

If you designed the smoke alarm circuit and calculated the correct circuit parameters needed for the new consumer unit (please use the correct terminology, it's not a fuse board), and you installed and tested the new circuit and the consumer unit, then you sign all 3 sections. Or use the single signatory form, which combines all 3 roles into 1 to save having to write it all out 3 times.

You're correct in saying that you put in the "extent" box only the bits that you've installed.

If the supply protective device type and rating is unknown, you should determine these details by enquiry from the DNO. It is not permitted to limit an installation certificate. Although you might find your assessor will let that go, as it's a common problem.

Best of luck with your assessment.

Thanks for detiled answer.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Dont over think it.
The assessor isnt there to trip you up. As long as its installed safely and no glaring issues you will be fine.
First thing they look at on my jobs is main earthing and bonding. If you want brownie points append a photo of the bonding clamps and write location and staple to the certificate.
The new rules mean they can now ask for drawings, circuit design calculations, photos etc of the work and you have.to keep them for 6 years.

 

[timhoward]

The bottom line is they want your membership money for many years to come, and it's exceedingly rare to completely fail an assessment to the point they don't let you in. Worst case for most is another assessment within the first year.

Best advice I can give is relax, be honest, and look organised.
Have things out and ready. MFT, calibration certificate for it, public liability insurance details readily available, certificates for any qualifications you have told them you have readily available, print out their daft blank customer complaint form, have the EIC for the job you are looking at out and ready.
They might ask you to demonstrate a Zdb, or an rn.
If in any doubt about the assessor being a over-zealous wally then turn off (with householders permission) and demonstrate safe isolation, remembering to prove tester afterwards.
(My last one was a very decent bloke, I said "ok to leave it on?", he nodded!)

All the best for it, I'm sure you'll be fine.

You are the first I've heard of managing to join DI under new rules btw, when it's all done and dusted we'd be interested to hear of what the process entailed. From anecdotal rumours it's a miracle they were organised enough to phone you back!

 

[loz2754]

You are the first I've heard of managing to join DI under new rules btw,

I thought it didn't start till September.

 

[timhoward]

I thought it didn't start till September.

Correct, but it seems to be the case that NICEIC just totally ignore applications already where the applicant won't meet the new rules. Based on a few people I've spoken to at least, including those that have previously been members and wanted back in.

 

[loz2754]

Correct, but it seems to be the case that NICEIC just totally ignore applications already where the applicant won't meet the new rules. Based on a few people I've spoken to at least, including those that have previously been members and wanted back in.

Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[banny07]

The bottom line is they want your membership money for many years to come, and it's exceedingly rare to completely fail an assessment to the point they don't let you in. Worst case for most is another assessment within the first year.

Best advice I can give is relax, be honest, and look organised.
Have things out and ready. MFT, calibration certificate for it, public liability insurance details readily available, certificates for any qualifications you have told them you have readily available, print out their daft blank customer complaint form, have the EIC for the job you are looking at out and ready.
They might ask you to demonstrate a Zdb, or an rn.
If in any doubt about the assessor being a over-zealous wally then turn off (with householders permission) and demonstrate safe isolation, remembering to prove tester afterwards.
(My last one was a very decent bloke, I said "ok to leave it on?", he nodded!)

All the best for it, I'm sure you'll be fine.

You are the first I've heard of managing to join DI under new rules btw, when it's all done and dusted we'd be interested to hear of what the process entailed. From anecdotal rumours it's a miracle they were organised enough to phone you back!

Thanks for advice. They gave me assesment date two month after taking money from me.They offered me to join Approved contractor scheme but I do not have enough work/jobs to show them.
Another information I need is about referance method. should it be "A" or "100". Thanks agan guys.

 

[timhoward]

Another information I need is about referance method. should it be "A" or "100". Thanks agan guys.

For the smokes? I'd use the ref method that has the greatest restrictions, so for example if it is in conduit in a wall (A) and then over a plasterboard ceiling (100) I'd go with A (from table 4D5) as the current carrying capacity is lower for A than 100.

 

[banny07]

For the smokes?

For the smoke alarm cable goes in ceiling and plaster boarded wall with insulation(in the wal). But for the existing curcuit it goes in the ceiling and under the plaster/chased in the solid wall. I think I have to put reference method for all the circuit as I changed the consumer unit. I could not find any previous certificate.

 

[timhoward]

Method 100 will be mostly what you want as it always has lower CCC than method C (for the chased in wall part).
(If insulation has been topped up in loft it might be 101. )

 

[banny07]

Method 100 will be mostly what you want as it always has lower CCC than method C (for the chased in wall part).
(If insulation has been topped up in loft it might be 101. )

I think I have to choose one of the following code as it is given on the certificate I am to use. Please do correct me if it is wrong. Thanks

REFERENCE CODES FOR TYPES OF WIRING​	A – PVC/PVC CABLES​	B - PVC CABLES IN METALLIC CONDUIT​	C - PVC CABLES IN NON- METALLIC CONDUIT​	D - PVC CABLES IN METALLIC TRUNKING​
E - PVC CABLES IN NON-METALLIC TRUNKING​	F - PVC/SWA CABLES​	G - XLPE/SWA CABLES​	H - MINERAL-INSULATED CABLES​	O – Other State:

 

[timhoward]

Ah that is for the Wiring Type column and for normal T+E cables will be A
You were talking in the correct terms for the Reference Method column before.
By the way there is a John Ward you tube video on electrical installation certificates which might be worth you having a gander at as you want to avoid common errors particularly on this one!

 

[loz2754]

I think I have to choose one of the following code as it is given on the certificate I am to use. Please do correct me if it is wrong. Thanks

REFERENCE CODES FOR TYPES OF WIRING​	A – PVC/PVC CABLES​	B - PVC CABLES IN METALLIC CONDUIT​	C - PVC CABLES IN NON- METALLIC CONDUIT​	D - PVC CABLES IN METALLIC TRUNKING​
E - PVC CABLES IN NON-METALLIC TRUNKING​	F - PVC/SWA CABLES​	G - XLPE/SWA CABLES​	H - MINERAL-INSULATED CABLES​	O – Other State:

This is cable type, not installation reference method.
For PVC cables with PVC sheath it is type A.

Installation method refers to the conditions that the cable passes through, and the method you record is the worse set of conditions.
For PVC/PVC flat cables, the methods are given as 100, 101, 102, or 103. They're in the regs book, and your assessor may want to know that you're able to find where to look.

 

[banny07]

Ah that is for the Wiring Type column and for normal T+E cables will be A

For PVC/PVC flat cables, the methods are given as 100, 101, 102, or 103

 

[catdog1121]

Thanks for advice. They gave me assesment date two month after taking money from me.They offered me to join Approved contractor scheme but I do not have enough work/jobs to show them.
Another information I need is about referance method. should it be "A" or "100". Thanks agan guys.

I doubt there is much if any difference to domestic installer or Approved electrician, its more about what qualifications you had.. I think they understand when first starting you might have limited jobs.. I used my own house with new feed out to a shed when I first registered. They were fine with that.. Like others have said they want your money..

Make sure you have all the required books and your MFT is in calibration.

If you ever need help filling out the forms take a look at BS7671 or onsite guide I think at least one of them it has it filled out as an example so you can use that to understand what is expected.