opinions please

[flukey]

hi all,
opinions appreciated on this scenario please.
3036 rewirable fuseboard, 16mm tails, 10mm main earth, 6mm bonding, no rcd protection.
customer wants their cooker switch moved 200mm to the left.
should be a nice easy job but wont meet the regs if only the socket is moved.
then again the installation wont be left in a less safe condition than before.
keep losing jobs like this by playing safe (regs, part p etc) but surely we can move a socket without the need to bring that circuit up to current regs
should i play it safe and let fat bob from down the pub do it or crack on myself
all opinions appreciated

 

[saveloy]

Do you have to lengthen the cable or is it just a case of moving the switch?

 

[Mr Mark Sparks]

i dont really know what to say.
its rotten that it works like this they are never going to have it all brought up to standard.
there really should a disclaimer available so you can tell them what needs to be done and if they say no then you can still do the smaller job and not be liable for the whole installation


however i doubt this will happen

 

[Spudnik]

I have just done this for a customer, albeit, it was a twin socket that was moved about 3" to the right.

CU was old with pop outs with a stand alone 30mA RCD main switch.

Bonding present, although undersized, everything tested fine.

Moved socket, gave her bill and cert and was on my merry way in just under a couple of hours.

Its you call at the end of the day but if the install seems satisfactory, although out dated, i would still go ahead.

You can only go so far, and customers are only willing to pay so much,

 

[ajelec10]

I would agree with Jason, in the eyes of the law i think that it would be seen as reasonably practicable to just move the socket and not have to re-wire the whole house for such a small job. just do your checks and make recommendations, its got to be better than the pub man!
Regards
AJ

 

[steamboatwilly]

<<3036 rewirable fuseboard, 16mm tails, 10mm main earth, 6mm bonding, no rcd protection.>>

Jeez....just got one exactly like this myself and I'm also struggling with it (bathroom this time but still a special location). There'll be more of this stuff coming.

Gotta be done properly really...your name's on the Cert forever!

Adding an RCD to up the protection wouldn't be that expensive?

 

[Spudnik]

With jobs like this, you really have to kinda put on your sales mans hat to try and get across the point of the regs etc, especially RCD protection.

 

[steamboatwilly]

Fair comment....the RCD leaftets supplied (free) by the ESC are fairly good at making the point 'officially'. I tend to leave these with clients with no RCD protection and I get quite a good return on people asking me to fit them.

 

[flukey]

thanks for all the replies

gonna speak with nic in the morning as these situations need clear definition.

i personally cant see a problem and know full well if i walk away from it fat bloke will do it anyway!!!!

part p is good, to a point, but now questioniong why i shouldnt be fat blokes drinking partner

once again thanks for the comments

 

[wattsup]

Part p is for government fat boys only, jobs for the boys. Fat bloke in pub don't give a ****e, hence part p is to tax the experienced...

 

[saveloy]

Part p is for government fat boys only, jobs for the boys. Fat bloke in pub don't give a ****e, hence part p is to tax the experienced...

Couldn't have put it better. Part P is a bit like car insurance/MOT. Those of us who want to do it right and within the law are the ones who are registered and regulated. Those who don't give a stuff just carry on regardless and aren't even on the radar. Not saying that all unregistered sparks are dangerous,but some of those who are not bothered about registering their work, are bound to be those who don't care about testing and following BS7671 to the letter.

 

[flukey]

Couldn't have put it better. Part P is a bit like car insurance/MOT. Those of us who want to do it right and within the law are the ones who are registered and regulated. Those who don't give a stuff just carry on regardless and aren't even on the radar. Not saying that all unregistered sparks are dangerous,but some of those who are not bothered about registering their work, are bound to be those who don't care about testing and following BS7671 to the letter.

we all know that!!!!!!!!!!!!! the question is for opinions not stating the obvious

 

[saveloy]

we all know that!!!!!!!!!!!!! the question is for opinions not stating the obvious

Sorry won't bother again

 

[flukey]

Couldn't have put it better. Part P is a bit like car insurance/MOT. Those of us who want to do it right and within the law are the ones who are registered and regulated. Those who don't give a stuff just carry on regardless and aren't even on the radar. Not saying that all unregistered sparks are dangerous,but some of those who are not bothered about registering their work, are bound to be those who don't care about testing and following BS7671 to the letter.

Sorry won't bother again

sorry to be abrupt, but we all know that part p is wrong, but the op is for opinions on a particular scenario
expressing your thoughts will get us all nowhere as it is something we all have to live with, like it or not
thoughts on the op are greatly appreciated though

 

[saveloy]

No worries. Wasn't trying to hijack your thread. Thing is I am seeing more and more of these threads now. As times are getting harder people are looking for more ways to save money and cut corners.. Which invaribly means using Mr. pub matey

My opinion FWIW. If it was just moving a socket then I would do it. (tin hat on). I would suspect that the job is going to get done anyway! And as you haven't ALTERED (keyword ???) the circuit, then I can't see a problem. You wouldn't be adding to the load.

 

[flukey]

No worries. Wasn't trying to hijack your thread. Thing is I am seeing more and more of these threads now. As times are getting harder people are looking for more ways to save money and cut corners.. Which invaribly means using Mr. pub matey

My opinion FWIW. If it was just moving a socket then I would do it. (tin hat on). I would suspect that the job is going to get done anyway! And as you haven't ALTERED (keyword ???) the circuit, then I can't see a problem. You wouldn't be adding to the load.

thats more like it. chances are i will nick this job from fatbloke and have 1 up on him, til nic shoot me down
atb

 

[johnstantine]

Is there any way of putting just the one cicuit on an rcd?, like coming out of your rewirable board and going through a one or two way unit with existing wiring. Would be cheaper than a new cu and you'd have protected the circuit.
Would be inclined to go by the book personally even though it's a right pain in the butt sometimes, at least you walk away without worry of any comebacks.

 

[flukey]

Is there any way of putting just the one cicuit on an rcd?, like coming out of your rewirable board and going through a one or two way unit with existing wiring. Would be cheaper than a new cu and you'd have protected the circuit.
Would be inclined to go by the book personally even though it's a right pain in the butt sometimes, at least you walk away without worry of any comebacks.

thanks for the reply
what about the main earth, bonding and tails not complying

 

[Spudnik]

You are not ADDING any additional load so i dont see the point in going through all that.

Just get on and do it!!!!!!!

 

[flukey]

You are not ADDING any additional load so i dont see the point in going through all that.

Just get on and do it!!!!!!!

hi jason,
so altering a circuit in a special location is not notifiable
how would you fill out the certificate and submit it

 

[Spudnik]

You are only moving a cooker switch, which the work itself IS notifiable.

What you should remember is, it IS bonded and earthed which was correct at the time of installation.

No RCD on a cooker circuit (without s/o?) is code 4 at best and so can be noted on the cert.

 

[flukey]

You are only moving a cooker switch, which the work itself IS notifiable.

What you should remember is, it IS bonded and earthed which was correct at the time of installation.

No RCD on a cooker circuit (without s/o?) is code 4 at best and so can be noted on the cert.

cheers jason
cooker outlet is with s/o.
hopefully nic will agree with you and jobs a goodun

 

[Spudnik]

My advice would be to (try) and speak to technical support tomorrow.

Dont forget to report back!

 

[flukey]

My advice would be to (try) and speak to technical support tomorrow.

Dont forget to report back!

thats the plan mate.
will post their response, (reckon i know what it will be already )

spoke to nic and must admit i was a bit shocked at their response.

they said no problem just do the job and cover it with a minor works highlighting known non conformities.

well i never

 

[Spudnik]

thats the plan mate.
will post their response, (reckon i know what it will be already )

spoke to nic and must admit i was a bit shocked at their response.

they said no problem just do the job and cover it with a minor works highlighting known non conformities.

well i never

Told ya so

 

[flukey]

Told ya so

you certainly did

cheers mate

 

[Peter Woodford]

I went to a house that was having works done in the bathroom and wanted lights updating said that circuit will need rcd protection and would recommend a fuseboard update. However when doing i.r before fuse board was changed found quiet a few circuits a mess i.e 1.5 cable being used in kitchen for power the list goes on. recommended a number of circuits need updating and was told they did'nt have the money. So in the end came off of henley block to a 2 way rcd board and ran new circuit for lights in bathroom and a socket in the loft so that new shower can be connected for mp 3 player.

 

[the jock]

i maybe a little late on this one

if you are going "just to do it " with all the checks

I would fit a retro fit MCB the at least your times should comply