Discuss Part P...how i hate thee... in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I think your being a bit harsh against the housebashers out there spudmeister:confused: i personally prefer the 'domestic installer' title as some of us actually tidy up and make good after woods leading to good referalls, 'not bash':mad:.......INSTALL!!:p

Mac, its horses for courses aint it!

what we are getting from this is that there is a wealth of diverse experience out there

some of that experience is backed up with quals, some isnt

and some experience is backed up with quals, but because those quals dont fit into the little 'boxes' set up by the 'proper sparks' brigade, then they are invalid

this should not be a 'i can p@ss higher than you' contest

but the original line of this thread suggested that people like me should not be allowed to p@ss at all:mad:

lets just accept that not everyone sat the 2330 or equivalent at 18 and spent the next 20 yrs changing CU's and doing rewires

BUT:

because you didnt go down that route, shouldnt mean that your experience and abilities prevent you from doing work that is well within your capabilities

(or buying the consumables to do that work, Easyfox my old pal;))

and there, your honour, I rest my case;)
 
I do agree shakey,if the job can be done well and by a fully knowledgeable person then part p and the like and the certs shouldnt play too much..alot of the old boys out there havent this stuff but fully know their stuff.
I was more on about the guys that get up one morning and decide to be an electrician and do this course buy a van and become the same as the rest of us with no knowledge of the job or experience.
I know of a few folk who have set up with really limited knowledge who dont know how to test,don't know three phase or two way switching or boiler wiring etc and cant work off an electrical wiring diagram.
yet the law never catches these guys...and now some are protected by part p.
i agree if you know the job then ok...but there are so many out there trading unsafe.
but i guess that it'll always happen..cos unless the government make money on it they aint interested.
I know this qualified/part P things ruffles alot of feathers..but the ones i'm on about are the ones who don't know what they're doing.
all i want is a way we can all trade without getting dragged down by guys who don't know what they are doing.

a pipedream big style...
 
I do agree shakey,if the job can be done well and by a fully knowledgeable person then part p and the like and the certs shouldnt play too much..alot of the old boys out there havent this stuff but fully know their stuff.
I was more on about the guys that get up one morning and decide to be an electrician and do this course buy a van and become the same as the rest of us with no knowledge of the job or experience.
I know of a few folk who have set up with really limited knowledge who dont know how to test,don't know three phase or two way switching or boiler wiring etc and cant work off an electrical wiring diagram.
yet the law never catches these guys...and now some are protected by part p.
i agree if you know the job then ok...but there are so many out there trading unsafe.
but i guess that it'll always happen..cos unless the government make money on it they aint interested.
I know this qualified/part P things ruffles alot of feathers..but the ones i'm on about are the ones who don't know what they're doing.
all i want is a way we can all trade without getting dragged down by guys who don't know what they are doing.

a pipedream big style...

ok Rabec, glad to see that you have backed down from your original 'fully qualified' argument

but in some ways i am dissapointed

because you, like my good friend Easyfox, and like so may others, throw up the argument, but when challaenged to state what they mean by terms like 'fully qualified' fail to do so

now you have tried to give answers to a question that wasnt asked (in my opinion anyway), and i think it could lead to a really meaningfull discussion

so come one, you've dangled the carrot, allow us to take a bite

what do you, as the originator of this thread, think constitutes a 'fully qualified' or 'proper sparks'?

theres loads of old boys who dont test, and dont have 2391

and what is the ratio of 2391 guys to non 2391 guys?

in my experience (and yes, i do have some) about 20-30% of sparks in any firm wield a multifunction tester in anger

so the guy with 30 yrs experience, who is happy to throw cables about, but is not interested in testing and certifying - proper sparks or not?

or guys like me, got 2391, about 20 of my 25 yrs as an electrician spent inspecting and testing, and ALL of it installing (mostly industrial) with LOADS of quals, but no 2330 or equivalent

proper sparks or not?

gauntlet laid down
 
shakey, earlier on this thread a raw nerve was touched when the definitions were mentioned
like in a lot of trades ,people specialise ,they maybe be able to transfer them skills but there qualifications are the best way seeing what they specialise in .you can hardly ask for a practical demo every time ,post job!!
if these cards have to be renewed then it will enable clients /employers see who is up to date
i know ......perfect world ......expensive....more qualis....
 
shakey, earlier on this thread a raw nerve was touched when the definitions were mentioned
like in a lot of trades ,people specialise ,they maybe be able to transfer them skills but there qualifications are the best way seeing what they specialise in .you can hardly ask for a practical demo every time ,post job!!
if these cards have to be renewed then it will enable clients /employers see who is up to date
i know ......perfect world ......expensive....more qualis....

but Wayne, how would you get the card in the first place

quals are easy, just do the course, pick up the ticket, job done

but how do you prove experience:confused:

and theres already a card out there - its called the JIB card

and because i dont have 2330 or equivalent, i cant get one, even though i teach electrical installations!:mad:

and is not even the quals that i have a problem with, - i have spent quite a few years in college and have many quals (some much higher than the level 3 2330) so i obviously believe in the value of quals

what i resent is the original line of this thread that without an arbitory set of quals then you are a not an 'electrician' and should not be allowed to work

I had already come off the tools (for the first time) and gone into my first teaching job by the time RABEC qualified, and he's trying to tell me i should not be working on 'circuits'? - I was doing three phase installations when this guy was still in school

freekin' nerve on the fella!!!!!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
you were probably wiring while he was just a thought of his dads:D
with the jib card you have to do practical tests (am1,am2)
if your card is up to date then theres a better than even chance youre competent to install ,after all why pay to keep a card up to date if your not using it?
 
The biggest con with Part P is that the people who actually police it are the Local Councils Building Control and from what I have seen in Southampton these people have vertually no electrical qualifications at all.
 
The biggest con with Part P is that the people who actually police it are the Local Councils Building Control and from what I have seen in Southampton these people have vertually no electrical qualifications at all.

totally agree with you - they make up the rules as they go along.

"yes you can do the job, but you will have to get a NICEIC registered electrician to check it for you"

"Why? Whats NICEIC got to do with anything, and anyway, i'm ok thanks, i am competent to install, test and inspect my own work"

"but you have to have 2391"

"no you dont, and anyway, I not only have 2391, I teach 2391"

"But you are not a memebr of a competent persons scheme"

"But that doesnt mean I not competent!"

and on and on and on

they haven't got a freekin clue:mad:
 
I do agree with you shakey on the blurry line of competent and not competent and who can and can't do the work.
My beef is only to weed out the can't do's not the can do's.
cos theres alot of people out there trading without no skills..never mind quals or part p.
there must be a way for the competents to be recognised as being able to do the work.
the part p thing is daft cos alot of incompetent folk can be registered and folk who know the job inside out not.
basically the whole thing needs a shake up so those who can do it do and those who can't don't...and a way that also isnt an underhanded way to get money out of us.
 

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