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I’d like your opinions on a scenario I’ve come across. A certificate was produced which contained errors and while there were still faults on the installation. This was corrected, but some time later further faults became apparent. What should I do?

Here’s some detail –

I’m a retired electrician. A family member got a builder to extend a Victorian semi they’d bought, and the builder arranged for an electrical contractor to do the full rewire the house needed.
The whole project was plagued by delays and issues. Towards the end the builder asked for payment for the electrical work. I advised they ask for a certificate before completing the payment, so a certificate arrived and I was asked to have a look at it.

There were a few issues on the certificate. The diversified load seemed set to match the 60A cut-out while than the collection of circuits they had installed implied 80A. There were a few measurements missing. My main concern was that every IR value was identical – 200Mohm @ 500v. I would have expected a bit of variation. Maybe this was the max value the test instrument could report, so I looked at the tester id but this didn’t name the device, just had an asset number.

The certificate had been signed as reviewed and sent to Local Building Control.
I passed my concerns to the family. They said there were existing RCD trips faults still on the installation, sparks at a light switch and the electrician was present investigating these.
The trip fault was cleared by separating a ring into two separate radials, using circuits labelled as ‘spare’ on the certificate. Seven of the 12 circuits were labelled differently on the certificate and the CU, four of them had different mcb current ratings.

A couple of months later, when the faults were cleared, I spoke to the owner of the electrical firm. He agreed to retest and confirmed the installation was now correct. My family had had enough hassle and didn’t want any further action.

First Question: what would you have done?

Some 18 months later, I changed a socket for them, and found the ring cpc was not continuous at that point. One earth cable had ‘necked’ at the terminal screw and come away from the connector.

Then the occupier happened to touch two metal-faced light switches at the same time ... and got a shock. I tested for earth and found several switches on one lighting circuit not grounded. The circuit was wired with distribution in the switch boxes rather than ceiling roses – there’s lots of downlight spots – but reconnecting the one disconnected cpc I found did not fix the fault.

Second question: Would you take it up with the Installer, or with NICEIC, or just fix it and grumble?
 
I’d like your opinions on a scenario I’ve come across. A certificate was produced which contained errors and while there were still faults on the installation. This was corrected, but some time later further faults became apparent. What should I do?

Here’s some detail –

I’m a retired electrician. A family member got a builder to extend a Victorian semi they’d bought, and the builder arranged for an electrical contractor to do the full rewire the house needed.
The whole project was plagued by delays and issues. Towards the end the builder asked for payment for the electrical work. I advised they ask for a certificate before completing the payment, so a certificate arrived and I was asked to have a look at it.

There were a few issues on the certificate. The diversified load seemed set to match the 60A cut-out while than the collection of circuits they had installed implied 80A. There were a few measurements missing. My main concern was that every IR value was identical – 200Mohm @ 500v. I would have expected a bit of variation. Maybe this was the max value the test instrument could report, so I looked at the tester id but this didn’t name the device, just had an asset number.

The certificate had been signed as reviewed and sent to Local Building Control.
I passed my concerns to the family. They said there were existing RCD trips faults still on the installation, sparks at a light switch and the electrician was present investigating these.
The trip fault was cleared by separating a ring into two separate radials, using circuits labelled as ‘spare’ on the certificate. Seven of the 12 circuits were labelled differently on the certificate and the CU, four of them had different mcb current ratings.

A couple of months later, when the faults were cleared, I spoke to the owner of the electrical firm. He agreed to retest and confirmed the installation was now correct. My family had had enough hassle and didn’t want any further action.

First Question: what would you have done?

Some 18 months later, I changed a socket for them, and found the ring cpc was not continuous at that point. One earth cable had ‘necked’ at the terminal screw and come away from the connector.

Then the occupier happened to touch two metal-faced light switches at the same time ... and got a shock. I tested for earth and found several switches on one lighting circuit not grounded. The circuit was wired with distribution in the switch boxes rather than ceiling roses – there’s lots of downlight spots – but reconnecting the one disconnected cpc I found did not fix the fault.

Second question: Would you take it up with the Installer, or with NICEIC, or just fix it and grumble?
not much use taking it up with the NICEIC if Matey is not registered with them, take it up with the CPS he is with, if he is a member of a CPS take it up with them.
 
You mention the house had a rewire, but also that there were still were existing rcd faults? So I guessing they didn't rewire? Just wired the extension?
Afraid not. It was a full rewire, and when the cert was issued there were faults on the installation. After I questioned it, they said cert was issued in error.
 
Didn't think you can issue a completed EIC with faults still on the installation
 
Didn't think you can issue a completed EIC with faults still on the installation
Well you can if the EIC bears no relation to the installation ?

It is worth raising with the scheme - They may or may not take immediate action, but it will at least be flagged at their next annual inspection. If under the Part P scheme there have been occasions where the NICEIC have required a member to go back and fix something when it's blatant too - though in an extension situation it is often hard to prove whether someone else has touched stuff after them of course.
 
I’d like your opinions on a scenario I’ve come across. A certificate was produced which contained errors and while there were still faults on the installation. This was corrected, but some time later further faults became apparent. What should I do?

Here’s some detail –

I’m a retired electrician. A family member got a builder to extend a Victorian semi they’d bought, and the builder arranged for an electrical contractor to do the full rewire the house needed.
The whole project was plagued by delays and issues. Towards the end the builder asked for payment for the electrical work. I advised they ask for a certificate before completing the payment, so a certificate arrived and I was asked to have a look at it.

There were a few issues on the certificate. The diversified load seemed set to match the 60A cut-out while than the collection of circuits they had installed implied 80A. There were a few measurements missing. My main concern was that every IR value was identical – 200Mohm @ 500v. I would have expected a bit of variation. Maybe this was the max value the test instrument could report, so I looked at the tester id but this didn’t name the device, just had an asset number.

The certificate had been signed as reviewed and sent to Local Building Control.
I passed my concerns to the family. They said there were existing RCD trips faults still on the installation, sparks at a light switch and the electrician was present investigating these.
The trip fault was cleared by separating a ring into two separate radials, using circuits labelled as ‘spare’ on the certificate. Seven of the 12 circuits were labelled differently on the certificate and the CU, four of them had different mcb current ratings.

A couple of months later, when the faults were cleared, I spoke to the owner of the electrical firm. He agreed to retest and confirmed the installation was now correct. My family had had enough hassle and didn’t want any further action.

First Question: what would you have done?

Some 18 months later, I changed a socket for them, and found the ring cpc was not continuous at that point. One earth cable had ‘necked’ at the terminal screw and come away from the connector.

Then the occupier happened to touch two metal-faced light switches at the same time ... and got a shock. I tested for earth and found several switches on one lighting circuit not grounded. The circuit was wired with distribution in the switch boxes rather than ceiling roses – there’s lots of downlight spots – but reconnecting the one disconnected cpc I found did not fix the fault.

Second question: Would you take it up with the Installer, or with NICEIC, or just fix it and grumble?

I'd definitely raise it with the scheme if there is one, or perhaps approach the electrician first directly - members of a scheme are required to have a complaints procedure in place.

It does sound like there are some issues, though sometimes from experience these are caused by the builder fiddling about when the electrician is off site, to 'finish' something off....

Doesn't excuse a certificate being issued with his name on though if he hasn't verified things.

The IR reading is not that unusual on a new build - it will probably be the maximum reading on his meter I imagine. Though technically it's normally written as >200.

Of course that doesn't mean that the report filler hasn't just plucked figures from the default - just that it's not unexpected.

Those readings are meant to be taken before the cables are ever energised, to prove that the cable has not been damaged during installation or plastering, etc.

In practise if a property is lived in, it's more complicated, but a new EIC should have maximum IR readings - It's on an existing property when testing older wiring with stuff installed that it's suspicious if every reading is 'perfect'.

When you say 'a shock' with the two light fittings, do you mean a very slight tingle, or a real shock? Although the earth should be connected (and complete through the circuit) at each metal switch, you'd still not expect to get a noticeable shock from a two switches, especially if they are on the same lighting circuit. That would suggest possibly another problem.

If your family wanted to be confident that things were OK, then they could consider getting someone else to carry out an EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) - which should show up any issues with earthing or things like incorrect labelling (which is a sign of a poorly designed job, or carelessness).

It would be an additional cost of course, but the benefit would be that it could be used to demonstrate any significant problems while there is still a chance of getting them corrected.
 
You could contact the CPS and ask them to carry out an EICR (Inspection and Request) to ascertain the condition of the install

Their report can be used as evidence in court and has weight.
 

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