Some advice on infrared heaters please.

[HappyHippyDad]

Evening all

I have been asked to quote for installing infrared heating panels (smart) throughout a house. This will be a first for me and I thought I would talk it through on here.

In total 5.8kW. Top floor is 2.7kW (3 panels and a towel panel) and ground floor is 3.1kW (4 panels). These are the panels Select XLS - White Frameless Infrared Panel Heater - https://www.herschel-infrared.co.uk/product/select-xls-white/

There will be a number of smart stats so most of the panels can be individually controlled.

They will be located on the ceiling.

There are 2 socket circuits in the house, 20A top floor, 32a ground.

I was planning on introducing 2 new circuits as it is quite a bit to add to the existing socket circuits. They will have type A 30mA RCD protection

With NSH's each heater would have it's own isolation switch. Would it be necessary for each infrared panel to have an isolation switch? With them being ceiling mounted this would add quite a bit more disruption, i.e having to chase down the wall to locate a FCU or DP switch. I can see it being a good idea, but I wondered if it was breaking the regs?

Any further points to consider?

Thankyou all.

 

[davesparks]

Would it be necessary for each infrared panel to have an isolation switch? With them being ceiling mounted this would add quite a bit more disruption, i.e having to chase down the wall to locate a FCU or DP switch.

Yes each panel should have its own means of isolation so that it can be isolated for maintainence or when it has become faulty.
You don't have to chase all the way down the wall and mount them at socket height though, they can go at high level or even on the ceiling.


Presumably you working to someone else's specification of the type of heater, power ratings etc?

 

[James]

I would look at it like this,
each panel requires A means of isolation.
however, they don’t need individual isolators
a single isolator for heating would be ok in my book.

 

[littlespark]

I was always told IR heaters were wasteful.

They heat bodies, so you feel hot… and surfaces… but they don’t heat air… so thermostats don’t sense it’s hot, and don’t shut off.

Maybe I’m wrong.

 

[davesparks]

I was always told IR heaters were wasteful.

They heat bodies, so you feel hot… and surfaces… but they don’t heat air… so thermostats don’t sense it’s hot, and don’t shut off.

Maybe I’m wrong.

They have their place and do work in some situations, but as you say they heat people and surfaces rather than the air around them.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Thanks for the advice.
Yes, the client has purchased the heaters and specified where they want them. They are a pretty well informed couple and have clear ideas of what they want, but also open to suggestion and the need to install it correctly, I.e follow regulations.

 

[pirate]

I have installed those hershel panels and 3 years on they have been faultless and very effective in their setting. Being ceiling mounted keeps the walls clear and also prevents accidental damage. There are 2 circuits for these panels in the building, and the means of isolation is via the switched sockets they are plugged into, plus their respective breakers, of course. They have never been turned off, but each circuit is controlled by a thermostat. Normally I would have hard wired them, but as they each came with a plug it made sense to install them on a socket circuit while we evaluated them. It makes it easy to isolate each one, but as I said, 3 years on they just give out the required heat, and have been a success all round. Heating the fabric of the building is a plus in my view, but I guess that not all building types are as suitable. I would add that this is a single storey building, with loft access above the ceiling, so the wiring is all above the ceiling.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I have installed those hershel panels and 3 years on they have been faultless and very effective in their setting. Being ceiling mounted keeps the walls clear and also prevents accidental damage. There are 2 circuits for these panels in the building, and the means of isolation is via the switched sockets they are plugged into, plus their respective breakers, of course. They have never been turned off, but each circuit is controlled by a thermostat. Normally I would have hard wired them, but as they each came with a plug it made sense to install them on a socket circuit while we evaluated them. It makes it easy to isolate each one, but as I said, 3 years on they just give out the required heat, and have been a success all round. Heating the fabric of the building is a plus in my view, but I guess that not all building types are as suitable. I would add that this is a single storey building, with loft access above the ceiling, so the wiring is all above the ceiling.

Thanks Pirate, that's a good read.
They do come with plugs on, but with them being ceiling mounted the client doesn't want any cable on show. I'll be chopping the plug off (ok'd in MI) and putting on a FCU I think.

Where do you have the sockets? In the loft? Perhaps I could do that on the top floor heaters!

 

[davesparks]

Yes, the client has purchased the heaters and specified where they want them. They are a pretty well informed couple and have clear ideas of what they want

Just keep in mind when doing the job that you may well be going back again in the near future to convert to a more conventional heating method.

 

[brianmoooore]

They heat bodies, so you feel hot… and surfaces… but they don’t heat air…

I was in a largish church last night for a school nativity play. I chose my seat so as to be directly in front of two 9kW (if 1.5kW tubes) wall mounted IR heaters; one each side. I did not feel hot at any time. Head and shoulders slightly less cold than my legs and feet would be more accurate.

 

[pirate]

Yes, HHD, the sockets are in the loft. It's a large space so the rings were easy to install, and thus there is no exposed cabling in the rooms below. The underfloor space in the attic has insulation in it, so lengths of downpipe were fitted and the cable and plug for each heater sits in the pipes, making it easy to unplug and remove a heater if necessary. It's a light industrial building, brick internal and external walls and concrete floor. This seems ideal for IR heating as the fabric heats up. Yes, if you stand underneath a panel you can feel a slight extra warmth on your head, but not unpleasant!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I've been trying to find any information on in rush current of infrared heaters, to know avail. Could be anywhere between 0 and 10 x. Does anyone have some information on this? I'll contact Herschel to ask also, but it would be interesting to have a chat about it here.

From the little specific information I can find on the net, I am assuming these are resistive heating. They send current to an element and the heat is reflected to desired location.

One more question is how quickly do you feel warm in the area fed by these heaters? My outdoor gym is fed by infrared and I find that I do not particularly notice a big difference when I walk into it (although I do notice some), but I'm soon warm enough, although I start training so this massively warms me up, meaning I'm not sure if it's the heaters or me.

Should you feel a difference when you walk into an area fed by these heaters or do you have to wait for them to heat up you as an object?

Also, if they are heating up the objects, do these object then give off heat which warms the room? I'm guessing not really as they simply wouldn't get warm enough to do that.

 

[littlespark]

In my experience, you turn on an IR heater from cold and it comes on quick. You feel the heat on your skin like a “prickly” heat instantly if standing below it.

Closer body parts heat first… so you could have a sweating head, and frozen hands…

 

[brianmoooore]

The term infra red heater covers a wide range of heater types. Any heater that you can feel direct heat coming from is 'infra red', even though it may be primarily a convector. If you stand a foot away from a standard domestic wet heating radiator, you can feel heat directly, and this is infra red, if you touch it, that's conducted heat, and as it warms the air, that's convected heat.
The two types of high level infra red heaters I've installed are very different from each other. One sort used elements of a similar construction to oven or grill elements, have no significant inrush current at all, and take a while to have any effect, while the other sort uses quartz tubes which light up ruby red, and these have a considerable inrush. The heat from these can be felt instantly.
I have no knowledge of the panels in this thread, but I suspect that inrush currents are low.

 

[marconi]

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