Stab Lok

[phlip79]

Is a stab lok panel as bad as Everything I’m reading online ? Or just some of them?

Moved into a 30 minute year old house and wondering if having stab lok is reason enough to change the panel ?

 

[pc1966]

I don't think we ever saw that brand of panel over here, so can't comment specifically about that.

But it is 30 years old, you probably can't get spares for it should something break, and I don't see any RCD protection (GFCI) against electric shock (though in some cases that is done at end sockets - here in the UK it is usually done at the panel in all places wired in the last decade or two).

Those are 3 good reasons to look at replacing it!

Check out the local electricians to find those that are decent (good reviews, folk who have used them before, membership of professional bodies, etc) and get a couple of quotes for a new board.

If the rest of the house is in good condition (no damaged cables, sockets intact, etc) then you don't need a rewire, just a modern board for peace of mind.

 

[westward10]

There has been much written about the reliability of Stab-Lok devices failing under fault conditions. In the US they are called Federal Pacific and the UK version made by Federal Electric and ECC (related companies) are a direct copy. In Canada they are called Federal Pioneer and are made by Schneider, still available. There was recalls of Federal Pioneer with Schneider replacing them for free, recalls were for the blue toggled devices with replacements having a hole through the toggle, in your picture the blue toggle one is indeed a replacement (has a hole through the blue toggle).
It is not clear how true it is but the good folk in the testing house at Federal Pacific were apparently not honest about the performance of their devices and later tests show a high failure rate however, I don't believe the same can be said of the Federal Pioneer brand by Schneider.

 

[freddo]

Twice I've seen federal MCBs in the UK not trip under dead short conditions, the circuit only breaking after the copper at the fault location burned back enough that the arc extinguished. I wouldn't want that panel in my house.

 

[davesparks]

Personally, if it was my house, I'd replace it.
I don't like them, I don't trust them.

In a customers premesis it's a little trickier, I can't just recommend replacing a DB based on my personal opinion. I'd certainly encourage then to replace it though.

 

[pc1966]

Twice I've seen federal MCBs in the UK not trip under dead short conditions, the circuit only breaking after the copper at the fault location burned back enough that the arc extinguished. I wouldn't want that panel in my house.

Wow, as bad as the reputation!

Thankfully never had to deal with one myself.

 

[westward10]

I remember a fair few years back replacing some external emergency lights at a hotel. All Federal boards with non existent circuit identification, save hunting for the circuits me being clever just shorted them out, nothing tripped
I don't believe the Federal Pioneer made by Schneider in the OPs board are so unreliable.

 

[Megawatt]

Is a stab lok panel as bad as Everything I’m reading online ? Or just some of them?

Moved into a 30 minute year old house and wondering if having stab lok is reason enough to change the panel ?

All residential panels have stabs which I’ve never had a problem with them. You only option is to buy a bolt in panel but I doubt they make a single phase bolt in panel. To my knowledge they only make 3 phase bolt in panels. No need to change your panel

 

[pc1966]

To me the lack of RCD / GFCI protection would be a good enough reason to change it.

 

[Megawatt]

To me the lack of RCD / GFCI protection would be a good enough reason to change it.

pc1966 that was an odd panel or board as y’all called it and Canada goes by the same book as the US and I’ve never run across a panel that looked like that. Anyway in the US the panel itself does not require GFCI/ RCD protection, it’s just the branch circuits that feed the loads that require GFCI protection

 

[pc1966]

@Megawatt Don't you have RCD / RCBO in the panel so the house fixed wiring is protected against faults to Earth/CPC?

One of the changes in recent decades in the UK was for RCD protection to be a requirement on feeds to any cable not with metallic sheath (such as SWA) that might be buried less then 50mm from a wall surface and so at risk from somebody doing DIY and nailing in to it.

Folk have been killed that way, including a MP's daughter, which partly pushed for stricter control on who can do electrical work here.

Sadly has not stopped the cowboys (not the USA use of "cowboy")

 

[Megawatt]

@Megawatt Don't you have RCD / RCBO in the panel so the house fixed wiring is protected against faults to Earth/CPC?

One of the changes in recent decades in the UK was for RCD protection to be a requirement on feeds to any cable not with metallic sheath (such as SWA) that might be buried less then 50mm from a wall surface and so at risk from somebody doing DIY and nailing in to it.

Folk have been killed that way, including a MP's daughter, which partly pushed for stricter control on who can do electrical work here.

Sadly has not stopped the cowboys (not the USA use of "cowboy")

pc no we don’t have GFCI for protection of the panel it self, the poco hooks to the top of the meter base only and we start our Wiring which means the wire goes from the bottom of the meter base and feed a 200 amp panel with a stander 200 amp double pole breaker which is not GFCI protected. I really don’t see a need for GFCI protection for the panel. When wiring domestic certain loads require GFCI Protection such as laundry rooms, bathrooms, outdoor applications and kitchens. We usually install GFCI outlets instead of a GFCI breaker. Also we added more protection which is AFCI breakers which is similar to RCD and this protection is for all bedroom outlets and living rooms Outlets and lighting

 

[pc1966]

We usually install GFCI outlets instead of a GFCI breaker.

That was what I wondered. We do have the equivalent RCD socket outlets, but generally they are rarely installed now as the breaker provides that protection instead for all downstream sockets.

That is much better as then your fixed wiring is protected against careless DIY, etc, and you only need one RCD per floor's worth of sockets, typically. Cheaper as well!

Usually a RCD at panel incomer is limited to TT cases where the incoming supply lacks an earth and you have local Earth rods instead. Or in some agricultural "special locations" where fire is a higher risk from rats chewing cables, etc. In those cases the RCDs are set to 100mA to 300mA trip threshold typically and are delay-type so you get selecting with the 30mA ones used for any per-circuit protection.
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AFDD are new here in the UK, still very expensive compared to RCBOs and not many are convinced they add much to safety here.

Also you have to remember the UK has fused plugs, so typically we have a lot of sockets on a 32A breaker and then each appliance will have its own HRC fuse in its plug in the 3A-13A range depending on what it needs. So a stand lamp would be on something like 0.75mm or 0.5mm (18-20AWG) cable with a 3A fuse.