Toshiba Tosvert-130 transistor inverter issue

[Hellmooth]

As the title says, I was called by a company that fix aeroplane parts, they have a machine that is used for testing generators, it's stopped working and I was asked to have a look. I've told them it's way out of my depth and I pretty much don't have a clue, but said I would stop by and get a look at the machine and see if I could find any information out. Had a look and seen that the invertor display panel had ST-CC is open, had a look at the manual and it seems it needs to be closed for to run, has anyone worked on these before, or know someone that could fix it, I'm in Edinburgh, cheers!

 

[Darkwood]

Depends on what ST-CC means ....could it mean the Stop Control Circuit?

If so you have a open circuit on a circuit that is normally closed to allow the machine to run, could be broken wire, loose wire, actuated stop button that may need resetting, limit switch that has opened because a cover is loose etc etc ...loads of possibilities tbh and that is if that is what ST-CC means?

Need the inverter brand and model to check the codes.

 

[Hellmooth]

Was hoping you would reply lol, yeah I seems like it could be a safety of some sort, I found the drawing for it will post it up! Is this the kind of stuff you do?

 

[Darkwood]

I build control systems for many types of machinery, Inverters, plc control, monitoring, safety circuits etc etc ... so I'll take a pot shot if you post the wiring diagram(s)

 

[Hellmooth]

Yeah I thought that's what you did!

I'm trying to get it sent to me from the guy on site, he had it pulled up on his computer, I've managed to find the manual online but it doesn't seem to have the drawing in it!

The ST seemed to stand for run, there was also a forward and reverse run on it, the CC seemed to be a common on the drawing, the ST was linked to the forward and reverse and a couple of other things, probably doesn't make sense so will get the drawing!

 

[Hellmooth]

The brand and model are in the title.

 

[Darkwood]

The brand and model are in the title.

Yes collared that after I wrote it - DOH!

 

[Hellmooth]

The machine is an electric power equipment company model 1176, probably irrelevant, but there is issues with the machine itself and it seems to stem from the inverter, it has lost power to some 12v and 24v outputs.

 

[Darkwood]

The machine is an electric power equipment company model 1176, probably irrelevant, but there is issues with the machine itself and it seems to stem from the inverter, it has lost power to some 12v and 24v outputs.

A bit of knowledge of inverters and the control side may be needed here... is it solely supplying the the control power, or is it coupled to an external same voltage power supply to allow recognition of other sourced voltage inputs.
Without a terminal layout and/or programmed terminal assignement if inputs/output are programmable then it can be hard to diagnose what voltage should exist and where, also any analogue inputs may be 0-20mA/4-20mA or vice versa instead of 0-10v so cannot be tested by checking voltage.

It can get complicated very quickly without experience in this area although I would be checking the stop circuit is closed at all points and connections, note you may not be grounded to earth on the negative or positive side of the 24v dc control thus it can be difficult to reference any voltages unless you know some other way if they are the positive or negative side, usually they both are blue control cables so unless they are number coded it can be confusing.

 

[Hellmooth]

I have limited knowledge of controls, I'm not going to get involved tbh, wouldn't know where to start! Was just the off chance that anyone had worked on this system before or knew anyone who did local to myself! I emailed the company, they are based in the US, they got back to me saying they didn't know of anyone in Europe! If I could find someone like yourself I'm sure they could troubleshoot it with the drawings etc, they are all on site! I could do it with guidance but wouldn't waste my time attempting it myself, I'd be running around in circles!

 

[Darkwood]

TBH - I can usually solve these issues within half an hour or at least pinpoint the cause and tell them what needs to be done to rectify it, but your no where near my catchment area and i'm mown under too...

I would take a punt' and get them to check if any covers are loose (belt covers, covers to gear assemblies even the control panel door if it has a limit on) there may be a limit switch that has opened or a stop button stuck in or with a loose wire or the contact block fallen off the back..... little knowledge needed here than to just visually check all stops seem to release and covers in place.

 

[Hellmooth]

The guy said he turned the machine off as usual at the end of the day, when he started it up the next day it wouldn't go! Could do as you say and check for stop buttons etc, will email the company again and ask what the ST-CC means and get back to you!

 

[Darkwood]

Just check the manual on that drive - ST and CC are related to a run inhibit circuit.

CC is common return and ST has to be linked to cc for it to allow the run command to function.

I would guess you have a loop going out from CC to 1 or more points then back to ST like a loop - if this loop is broken it will not let the drive run so tbh it may not be a big job to follow the loop and check why it isn't complete... again it may have limits on it, lock action stop buttons that require resetting etc etc, the possible things inline with this loop are dependant to each individual control system... if it isn't easy to locate then don't get too involved but worth a punt at a simple thing like a faulty/broken limit or a loose wire etc.

Your multimeter is your friend here just follow the cable out of ST around its loop until it returns back to CC.. its open circuit somewhere. Ensure the power is off just use your ohm- meter and check across any contacts/limits etc with your ohms range..Goodluck!

 

[Hellmooth]

This is what the screen is showing, I've tried emailing the manufacturers to see if they can shed any light.

 

[Hellmooth]

Yeah I seen that on the drawing, where did you find it, I couldn't see it on the manual I found online?

 

[Hellmooth]

Would the ST be coming out the inverter pcb? How would I locate it, does it show on the drawing?

 

[Darkwood]

Your board will have terminals similar to this ...so finding ST and CC should be easy...

If you do find it and resolve it then just enjoy the brownie points but I only advised you on this one due to its possible simplicity to resolve but normally I would agree with your early statement regarding your honesty and admitting to the customer that its not your field or out of your depth.. these sorts of problems can get very involved and complicated very quickly.

 

[Hellmooth]

Excellent thanks, if I bell these out it should be open then! Do the drawings show the points of the loop?

 

[Hellmooth]

I say that so I could trace from one point to the next?

 

[Hellmooth]

How did you find the manual on that website, I can't see it in Toshiba inverters?