Using Green/Yellow not as CPC

[nickblake]

reading that reg i would asume it applies to a neutral connection not a live , i know they are both classed as lives , but my interpritaion is blue can be used as a cpc or a cpc can be used as a neutral no other colours mentions so im assuming they are refering to the #pen and neutral connection i stand to be corrected if im wrong its getting late and my brain needs to reboot

 

[pennywise]

The regs only mention the "colour" combination code of green and yellow must only be used exclusively for the cpc to identify it, not the conductor itself which could be re sleeved to any colour. This could be why the NIC say it's ok, don't shoot the messenger

 

[robsparky1975]

I have seen people use t&e and sleeve the CPC with red for a 2 way,yuk,ripped out and replaced,also if any unused cores in a multicore cable are not used its good practise to pair with the cpc.

 

[Des 56]

Having never done so, I did think the ref to single core cables coloured G/y blah blah then meant multi core flexible cable G/Y could be oversleeved as live, but nickblakes interpretation seems sensible

I wonder if guidance note 1 has this in its covers ?

It is a deviation to apply colours to flexible cores to identify them as being used for a purpose other than that which their original colour indicates - if, after due consideration, colours are applied the deviation must be clearly recorded on the Electrical Installation Certificate

 

[Doomed]

I concur with Pennywise, its OK to oversleeve multicore flex's CPC.
But it is an abomination and smacks of being unprofessional.

Although I had to do this once for a short length of flex (50cm) connecting a dusk / dawn sensor to the fixed wiring. Still regret doing it.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

You always are Howard, I'm just the saddo looking it up but at least the op knows why it can't be done for future ref.

Not always Paul, but when i get it wrong i dont do it by halfs, and boy can i ferkup sometimes..................I managed to make a proper balls of my own bathroom fan last week, but dont ask

Cheers..........Howard

 

[coomers]

doesnt matter mate not permitted in regs ,cpc's on cable TWE or #flex should never be used as a live conductor simples read back on some of the posts

a cpc must be connected to earth to make it a cpc otherwise its called a conductor, sleeve conductor and it can be used for any purpose. Had deep discussions with city and guilds lecturer about this many years ago and also niceic inspector and what he didnt know about regs wasnt worth knowing simples !

 

[robsparky1975]

Not always Paul, but when i get it wrong i dont do it by halfs, and boy can i ferkup sometimes..................I managed to make a proper balls of my own bathroom fan last week, but dont ask

Cheers..........Howard

oh go on please share lol

 

[robsparky1975]

To me all multicore cables be they t&e,3,4 or 5 core flex etc should incorporate a cpc,i dont have the brb to hand but think there might be reference to something like this,no matter how short the run is.

 

[Paul.M]

A cpc is required the full length of the cable. If the op uses the cpc for a switch wire, no more cpc.

Using the cpc in multicore as a current carrying conductor is not allowed as it needs to have insulation.

As for changing the use of a cpc (with insulation + correct csa for its purpose + having a cpc for the full cable run) and change it to a live/line conductor and sleeve it at each termination and note it on the cert........ forget it, I'm off to the wholesalers to get the correct cable for the job.

 

[coomers]

To me all multicore cables be they t&e,3,4 or 5 core flex etc should incorporate a cpc,i dont have the brb to hand but think there might be reference to something like this,no matter how short the run is.

incuding all appliance flex?

 

[Paul.M]

All appliances that use more than 3.5mA needs an cpc providing.

 

[coomers]

All appliances that use more than 3.5mA needs an cpc providing.

better tell the mr dyson and mr flymo

 

[Paul.M]

better tell the mr dyson and mr flymo

Why, don't they comply with reg 543.7.1.2? Or am I misreading it?

 

[coomers]

Why, don't they comply with reg 543.7.1.2? Or am I misreading it?

you are misreading items of equipment with LEAKAGE of 3.5 milli amps these appliances are double insulated

 

[Paul.M]

Yep and we should be talking about fixed wirering and not flex to lawn mowers and vacuum cleaners.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is no requirement in BS7671 for multicore cables to contain a CPC.
In fact there is a note in the Tables for multicore cables in Appendix 4, which states "with or without a protective conductor".
I'd be very suprised to find Tables for current carrying capacity of cables that include cables without a CPC, if a CPC is a requirement of the Regulations.
As for over-marking conductors being a deviation and it being a requirement to record such on an EIC, what exactly is a deviation?
Any defects or omissions must be rectified before an EIC/MWC is issued.
Departures from BS7671 are allowed only if they afford the same degree of safety as would be achieved by compliance with the Regulations.
514.3.1 requires us to identify conductors by either colour or alphanumeric means.
514.3.2 requires that every core of a cable be identified at the terminations and preferably (but not necessarily) throughout it's length.
I cannot see that compliance with 514.3.1-2 would be either any form of deviation.

 

[coomers]

I agree with the above post,basically there is nothing in the regs that prevent oversleeving,i am not saying i agree or disagree with it but its a fact and not against the regs.

 

[Knobhead]

So you guys are quite happy to sleeve a phase conductor with Green/Yellow and us as a CPC or sleeve the Blue (neutral) conductor Brown and use as a live.
Where is the difference with using a fully insulated Green/Yellow conductor for another purpose if it is fully sleeved at the termination?

 

[truckster]

411.3.1.1 "A cpc shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory" so you need the cpc. Use 4 core flex