Voltage Optimisers is this going to save you ££££ what do you think

[Will Mcloughlin]

I'v been looking into voltage optimisers

are you really going to save money
boasts savings on 8-10%

reducing incoming voltage basicly a step-down transformer
and prehaps reduces heat loss from over voltage

lower voltage higher current?
I I believe it's to reduce
IR from the Kvar KV calc
any thoughts?

many thanks

will

 

[davesparks]

Anything electronic won't be affected at all as the power supplies will still use the same amount of power.
Heating elements will run at slightly reduced power but this will result in them taking longer to get up to temperature and so use the same, or possibly slightly more kWh.
Incandescent lamps will be slightly dimmer.

Generally speaking they don't achieve anything other than putting your money in the pockets of other people.

 

[sparkdog]

That's what I thought. Another money spinner for someone.

 

[ruston]

You would do better to think about what you do -tip one , don't fill the work vehicle with crap. It will cost you fuel and more wear and tear on the brakes and clutch etc.

 

[Pat H]

You would do better to think about what you do -tip one , don't fill the work vehicle with crap. It will cost you fuel and more wear and tear on the brakes and clutch etc.

And as important if not more. Don't thrash the van at 80mph down the motorway.
Its basically a motorised brick and the lost fuel as you push it past 40-50 MPH really stacks up.
I know hourly rates are high but the 10 mins you save on a drive are blown in fuel and wear and tear.

 

[ruston]

@Pat H You are right.
Years ago we had major road works on a bypass . They imposed a 50mph speed limit on it backed up by speed cameras. This road was a major traffic hold up . When the work was finished they lifted the speed restriction , about a year later they reimposed it as the statistics showed the traffic kept flowing better during the restricted speed.

 

[telectrix]

not only the fuel saving here. i generally cruise at a steady 60 on m ways and dual carriageways. gets me there a few minutes later, but more relaxed and less stressed out than if i'd been doing 80 and hitting the brakes all the time.

 

[ruston]

not only the fuel saving here. i generally cruise at a steady 60 on m ways and dual carriageways. gets me there a few minutes later, but more relaxed and less stressed out than if i'd been doing 80 and hitting the brakes all the time.

You are spot on. It is also the heavy braking that causes the tail backs in heavy traffic.

 

[davesparks]

Big Clive has a video on YouTube where he took one to bits and reviewed it,

 

[Will Mcloughlin]

so basicly stay away

Iv actually fitted two of these
threw a wholesaler
just wounderd if they work

they did a survey and said they could sAve a hotel 10 -12 grand a year
off a 120 grand lecky bill
(big hotel)

surely that's a ballsy claim
the unit itself would be around
30-40grand
which got me looking at bespoke units
and the cost keeps going up

is it good sales tactics or are people / business saving money

Inductive loads i guess wont positively effect
but it must be down to electronics
capacitive loads

 

[davesparks]

It is only resistive loads which will really draw less power when you lower the voltage, but they will have to be on for longer to do the same amount of work in the case of heaters or just be less bright in the case of lamps.
Electronics will generally draw more current at lower voltages to maintain the same amount of power.
Inductive loads like motors will do something that is beyond my knowledge but I'm pretty damned sure you'll end up putting more power in to the system to achieve the same amount of work.

 

[Gavin A]

Would you like some magic beans to go with that Voltage Optimiser?

 

[dmxtothemax]

All electrical loads require a certain amount of power to operate,
so if you adjust your voltage down, then the current rises to compensate
meaning the SAME amount of power is still used !
just in a different balance.
They are simply taking advantage of peoples technical ignorance.

 

[Taylortwocities]

 

[Besoeker]

A couple of years ago I was asked to do a review on one that was claimed to reduce energy consumption and this bills. It made my supply current look like this:

And saved no energy.

 

[marconi]

First, I agree with all the remarks and arguments everyone has written so far. However, I have installed one in our home (a Vphase unit). Why?

My wife has a number of medical equipment which run permanently bu are actually only doing any medical function for much less of the time; I cannot put a figure on it but examples are her medical fridge which has a fan inside it which constantly circulates the air inside, an air bed which has a compressor running all the time even when the bed is made, various adapters for syringe pumps. There are also the usual number of mains powered equipment with a transformer inside eg: we have emergency lighting units and the TV/Video/Sky set-up in the lounge and in her medical room. The net load is a constant 250 odd Watts at 240Volts. With the Vphase regulating the house voltage to 220Volts this reduces to just over 200Watts.

The other reason I installed it is to address the way my wife and her carers use the tumble dryers (one for us and one for the dog's stuff). They don't use the automatic programmes preferring to use the timed mode. I cannot change this behaviour (but did try but the moaning and arguments were just not worth it so I adopted a technical solution instead using the Vphase). The consequence is that broadly speaking the dryers are operated in a time chunk of 30 minutes for the freshen/soften up after being on the line to dry or 60, 90, 120 minutes. These are the 'standard' times they associate with particular bundles of wet laundry. And they don't like having to having a second run to complete drying if they selected too short a dry originally so it means they tend to pick a longer than is actually necessary time period to dry in one cycle and be ready on completion for putting away in the cupboard. My Vphase unit actually then works in my interest by reducing the amount of wasted energy resulting from the way the dryers are actually used. I have not explained any of this to my wife or her carers and they have not changed the way they use the dryers. My electricity consumption has gone down.

I thought you might find the second paragraph an interesting angle on the effectiveness of voltage optimers.

 

[Besoeker]

First, I agree with all the remarks and arguments everyone has written so far. However, I have installed one in our home (a Vphase unit). Why?

My wife has a number of medical equipment which run permanently bu are actually only doing any medical function for much less of the time; I cannot put a figure on it but examples are her medical fridge which has a fan inside it which constantly circulates the air inside, an air bed which has a compressor running all the time even when the bed is made, various adapters for syringe pumps. There are also the usual number of mains powered equipment with a transformer inside eg: we have emergency lighting units and the TV/Video/Sky set-up in the lounge and in her medical room. The net load is a constant 250 odd Watts at 240Volts. With the Vphase regulating the house voltage to 220Volts this reduces to just over 200Watts.

The other reason I installed it is to address the way my wife and her carers use the tumble dryers (one for us and one for the dog's stuff). They don't use the automatic programmes preferring to use the timed mode. I cannot change this behaviour (but did try but the moaning and arguments were just not worth it so I adopted a technical solution instead using the Vphase). The consequence is that broadly speaking the dryers are operated in a time chunk of 30 minutes for the freshen/soften up after being on the line to dry or 60, 90, 120 minutes. These are the 'standard' times they associate with particular bundles of wet laundry. And they don't like having to having a second run to complete drying if they selected too short a dry originally so it means they tend to pick a longer than is actually necessary time period to dry in one cycle and be ready on completion for putting away in the cupboard. My Vphase unit actually then works in my interest by reducing the amount of wasted energy resulting from the way the dryers are actually used. I have not explained any of this to my wife or her carers and they have not changed the way they use the dryers. My electricity consumption has gone down.

I thought you might find the second paragraph an interesting angle on the effectiveness of voltage optimers.

You need a certaing amount of energy to dry the clothes. At whatever voltage. Don't get deceived.

 

[Deleted account]

I was considering installing one for my property so I looked into it.
Ive read the ombudsmans report on a trail made in a load of actual domestic households with voltage optimisers installed. The claims being made up to 10% saving are true.

BUT

Only in a very small portion of the properties.

The average saving was 4-5%.

Some made no savings at all or showed an increase.


It's a few months back so cannot remember exact figures, but it was an interesting read.


All the saving information I've seen on products are a saving between 8-10%

£500- £600ish to supply and install is a lot to spend if your one of the properties that save no money.

If your lucky enough to be the average 5% saving then you would save £25 a year on the average £500 yearly electric bill.

If your even more lucky and you save 10% that's only £50 per year.

I could go on and give you a saving on higher electric bills , but I won't . you do the maths.

 

[whinmoor]

I was considering installing one for my property so I looked into it.

If your lucky enough to be the average 5% saving then you would save £25 a year on the average £500 yearly electric bill.

If your even more lucky and you save 10% that's only £50 per year.

I could go on and give you a saving on higher electric bills , but I won't . you do the maths.

Why not pick one up from eBay and install it yourself? According to your payback figures, it'll pay for itself in 2-3 years:

VPhase VX1 VX1-2 Voltage Optimiser - Power Saving Voltage Optimisation! | eBay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VPhase-VX1-VX1-2-Voltage-Optimiser-Power-Saving-Voltage-Optimisation-/232341484983?hash=item3618a1b5b7:g:cLMAAOSwY3BZHtBG

I've got one at my house and, whilst it's difficult to quantify the savings (if any), it cost less than a tank of diesel and hasn't had any negative side-effects.

 

[Deleted account]

Why not pick one up from eBay and install it yourself? According to your payback figures, it'll pay for itself in 2-3 years:

According to the figures I've quoted if I am one of the few luck individuals who save £50 a year it will take 10 -12 years to pay off.

If I am not so lucky and make no savings it will never be paid off.

I'm not sure where you got your 2-3 years figure.

if I installed it myself I would save £200. I'm still looking at 6-8 years in the unlikely event i am one of the luck few.

In order for me to invest in a energy efficient money saving scheme I need to know I am definitely going to get my money back long term.

If the report came back and said everyone saves between 4-6% I would consider it.

Of course I could get a cheap China import knock off for £200 and fit that.
I wouldn't waste my time, as time is money.

It costs me £55 to fill my tank with diesel. I must have a small one, how big is yours?

 

[whinmoor]

You reckoned you might save £25 a year. You can buy it from eBay for £75 - maybe as little as £45 if you happen to be the only bidder.

If you're a spark or a vaguely competent DiYer, you should be able to install it for pennies.

 

[Worcester]

Got this today from one of the well known and respected building energy monitoring organisations:

"EXAGGERATED CLAIMS FOR ENERGY SAVING

I think we may be making some headway against the claims made for voltage reduction (VR), thanks to greater awareness of the concept of an energy balance. Put simply, reduced energy input results in reduced output; so when you see a Youtube video "proving" that you get savings on a fan motor from reduced voltage at various speeds, the reason is simply that it is a free-running fan (keep your eyes open during the opening sequence) and they aren't mentioning its reduced air throughput at reduced power.

But now that vendors are being challenged over the energy balance, they have had to change their tune. They now say that motor-driven equipment "becomes more efficient" at lower voltage, enabling it to sustain its output with less input energy. Can this be true? Let's take the case of a motor delivering its maximum output of 7.5 kW. If it has an IE3 rating it would be working with an efficiency of about 90%, requiring 8.33 kW of input power. Now let's suppose that VR saves 10% on the input power (bigger savings are sometimes claimed), taking it from 8.33 to 7.5 kW. That would be the same as the output power. Bingo! A one-hundred-percent efficient motor.

In reality of course, maintaining output at lower voltage will necessitate a higher current (watts being volts times amps) and this will increase the losses in the motor, making it less rather than more efficient, and raising rather than lowering the input power required for the given output."​

 

[Worcester]

Want to really save money using a tumble dryer?

Simples: Use a heat pump model

 

[davesparks]

All electrical loads require a certain amount of power to operate,
so if you adjust your voltage down, then the current rises to compensate
meaning the SAME amount of power is still used !
just in a different balance.
They are simply taking advantage of peoples technical ignorance.

In the vast majority of loads the power will reduce with voltage, it does not stay constant. It is resistance which stays constant.
If power remained constant then dimmers would not work and a 240V lamp would light to full brightness on a 120V supply!

 

[davesparks]

Want to really save money using a tumble dryer?

Simples: Use a heat pump model

Or even better a washing line!

 

[Worcester]

In the vast majority of loads the power will reduce with voltage, it does not stay constant. It is resistance which stays constant.
If power remained constant then dimmers would not work and a 240V lamp would light to full brightness on a 120V supply!

So explain how both an old type and a modern dimmer work. less power less light, same light, same power. S

Power is not energy.

Power = Watts not Volts - Same power, less volts, higher amps.
Energy = Power x Time - ususally kWh

To dry clothes requires the same energy.
Wind and sun are free natural sources of energy hence a clothes line.

 

[davesparks]

So explain how both an old type and a modern dimmer work. less power less light, same light, same power. S

Power is not energy.

Power = Watts not Volts - Same power, less volts, higher amps.
Energy = Power x Time - ususally kWh

I only know how old type dimmers work im afraid, ive never yet worked with the modern sine wave dimmers as they haven't really made it in to the theatre industry yet. We're still mostly triac based phase angle control with a fair amount of thyristor dimmers still around.
But either way they all work by reducing the voltage.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, I've not suggested that power and energy are the same thing anywhere.

The statement that reducing the voltage increases the current is only possible if the load has constant power, which it doesn't.
I=V/R so as the voltage is reduced the only way the current could increase is if the resistance decreased.

If current were to rise as voltage drops then the current would become infinite every time the AC waveform crosses the zero point.

 

[Des 56]

I have saved lots of pounds,I can assure you all that money certainly can be saved
It just requires not wasting your money buying the item in the first place