Washer dryer.

[GBDamo]

After two visits from the "repair man" my washer dryer is still not fully drying (?) and my missus is chewing my balls about it now.

So off with the lid and checked the following.

Condenser water inlet valve motor is sound electrically. Or what i believe is, is so.

Element, stat and sensor appear sound. Pulling 7amps when on, trip not tripped some resistace across the sensor.

Blower fan runs without noise and spins down freely when power removed. Normally I'd spin the cooling fan to test physical resistance but there isn't one.

Pump on discharge fires up occasionally so condensed water is being removed. The water being pumped out is cold which would indicate the condenser is working.

Got it test drying a towel at the moment and it seems to be working fine, maybe it's the missus that's broken.

My only other thought is how it calculates drying time, are they on a load cell?

Anyone any thouhts?

 

[James]

Often they use a humidity sensor to detect when clothes are dry

 

[snowhead]

Where is the Dryer located?
If it's in a garage or none heated area it will struggle in this weather, the element can only raise the air temperature by a fixed amount.

Is it being overloaded, most washer / dryers or dryers won't take a full washing load .

 

[GBDamo]

Where is the Dryer located?
If it's in a garage or none heated area it will struggle in this weather, the element can only raise the air temperature by a fixed amount.

Is it being overloaded, most washer / dryers or dryers won't take a full washing load .

It is indoors and is niether under/over loaded.

I think its just crap, in that what it does is what its designed to do.

Probably the humidistat is a little over sensitive, as putting it on a timed dry will dry things.

 

[freddo]

Is it being overloaded, most washer / dryers or dryers won't take a full washing load .

Indeed most washer dryers will only dry half a wash load at a time.

 

[telectrix]

washer dryers are not as efficient as separate appliances. our dryer is a stand alone and takes a bigger load than the washer can, water in the condenser is quite warm, and it dries brilliant. struggles a bit with bath towels as they hold a lot of water, so they go on radiators. kills 3 birds... 1. warm room. 2. dry towels. 3. raises humidity in room cancelling out dry air, so my old lungs work better. reminds me. time for a smoke.

 

[marconi]

Bosch condenser dryer: My dearest wife - I don't do laundry, (nor hoovering or dusting) - always uses the timed function for drying because she finds the humidity stat always stops drying too soon. I suppose the same applies to a washer -dryer machine.

Thought - could it be the drum is not draining fully during the spin cycle so clothes are wetter than they should be (think Kenneth Clarke and Hesser )? When was the last time you cleaned the drain and filter and discharge pipe to ensure good flow rates?

As an aside, historically, English public school sports were divided between "wets" - who rowed - and "dries" - who played cricket or rugby. Slang came to describe as "wet" someone judged to be too weak, feeble or "soppy" to play field sports. Within the political context, the term was used by Thatcher's supporters as both as a noun and as an adjective to characterise people or policies which Thatcher would have considered weak or "wet".

 

[GBDamo]

The machine is five months old and my missus swears it is not drying as it should.

After my fumblings today I'm convinced each component is functioning but it is not working well.

There is only one user serviceable part and that is the discharge pump filter, which is and has been cleaned monthly.

My thinking is it's a lint issue, deppsiting in the condenser (or on the humidistat)and reducing efficiency hence why it doesnt dry on the auto function but does on the timed.

Now it's just thrown up an F17 error code, so back to Google.

 

[robd]

I'd get one that ducts to outside if you can, much better really and more efficient

 

[freddo]

The heat pump versions are the most efficient if you have the money!

 

[GBDamo]

If I had the room id definitely get a big vented drum dryer.

Not too bothered about efficiency, we plant a tree every time we use it to make it carbon neutral.

 

[telectrix]

If I had the room id definitely get a big vented drum dryer.

Not too bothered about efficiency, we plant a tree every time we use it to make it carbon neutral.

do you plant the trees in the drum or bonsai in the soap tray?

 

[littlespark]

5 months old? Send it back. Years warranty, surely.

 

[static zap]

It has surprised me how much a condensing one heats the room !
( and it's lack luster performance if room is already quite warm)
...I still have the option to get some ouside air envolved ! ...
(back to washer driers , do you have good water pressure ?)

 

[marconi]

F17 indicates a problem with flow rate of the water in to the machine - the inlet valve to the condenser - the flow rate is too slow. It could also be the condenser inside is blocked/restricted with lint and fluff.

Bosch Washer Dryer WVD24520GB/01 F17 error when drying - https://www.justanswer.com/uk-appliance/81uvz-bosch-washer-dryer-wvd24520gb-01-f17-error-when-drying.html

I only know about these codes because last week our WM displayed E18 meaning the drain filter was blocked

 

[Midwest]

Wot about just using the washing line, to hang the wet washing on

 

[GBDamo]

do you plant the trees in the drum or bonsai in the soap tray?

Dont be facetious, they are little mustard trees we plant in cotton wool on the window sill.
[automerge]1575314998[/automerge]

Wot about just using the washing line, to hang the wet washing on

Because, due to the vapour pressure of water, lack of wind and of direct sunlight there are few physical effects that will actually cause the water to volatalise.

And the missus is bone idle, good job she's a looker.
[automerge]1575315365[/automerge]

F17 indicates a problem with flow rate of the water in to the machine - the inlet valve to the condenser - the flow rate is too slow. It could also be the condenser inside is blocked/restricted with lint and fluff.

Bosch Washer Dryer WVD24520GB/01 F17 error when drying - https://www.justanswer.com/uk-appliance/81uvz-bosch-washer-dryer-wvd24520gb-01-f17-error-when-drying.html

I only know about these codes because last week our WM displayed E18 meaning the drain filter was blocked

Ah, sense. Well unfortunately this is a Hisense not bosch

There is little physical indication that the valve has opened although the winding resistance is in range and there is 240V to it.

The water exiting the machine is cold when the machine pumps it out so i dont think its a water/condenser issue, but could well be wrong.

Anyhow the F17 coincides with the high temp trip going.
[automerge]1575315508[/automerge]

5 months old? Send it back. Years warranty, surely.

This will be the case in the end but it winds me up that we have had two "engineers" out to it and they were both clueless.

 

[marconi]

Anyhow the F17 coincides with the high temp trip going.

So, .... I reckon the high temp trip activates because the circulating warmed air is too hot because the cooling provided by the condenser of the vapour laden hot air is inadequate because the condenser has an inadequate flow of cold water water through it because the inlet valve is obstructed in some way (its filter?) or not fully open or the condenser pipes are restricted - so the air gets hotter and hotter and more vapour laden (saturated) and useless for drying wet clothes with. Or something like this

I think these error codes may be standardised because Bosch and Siemens and Hisense use F17 for this problem. See comment by 'It looks great' in:

https://www.very.co.uk/hisense-wdbl...y-1400-spin-washer-dryer-white/1600320921.prd

If it was me I would buy this valve £20 - espares do a check will fit appliance service - and fit it myself to see if it was the problem as inidcated by F17 rather than faff about organising an 'engineer' to visit:

Hisense Washing Machine Valves | eSpares - https://www.espares.co.uk/search/ma3064pt1753/washing-machines/valves/hisense

Hisense Washing Machine Double Valve | eSpares - https://www.espares.co.uk/product/es1778482/washing-machine-double-valve?pageNumber=1&PartTypeId=1753&ManufacturerId=3064

 

[GBDamo]

This is the valve in question.

Like I've said the discharge water is cold, if there was insufficient coolant id expext this to be hot or at least warm.

After putting it through several 30 min cycles I observed that for the first three minutes it balances out the load. Then the heating element is energised for a further three minutes then for the rest it basically recirculates this hot air.

I can get it to go F17 by powering down just after the three minute heat up and starting a new drying cycle.

I will read your link though, cheers.

 

[marconi]

Vented Condenser dryers don't get as hot as open cycle air vented dryers and the closed cycle unvented condenser dryers are significantly cooler still - all they doing is producing warmed (not hot) dry unsaturated air to absorb water in the drum which is then condensed out and the air recirculated again. This might explain your observation that the exit water is cold - it is not much heat laden. All the heat transfer is constant temperature phase changes of water to vapour in the drum - vaporization- the clothes and air lose heat - latent heat of vaporization- and then vapour to water - condensation into water condensate and dried air in the condenser - latent heat of condensation given up and the air absorbs some of this heat and is recycled. The electric heater makes up for inevitable losses.

or something like this - explanation could be better but you get the gist.

 

[static zap]

Things I remember about washer driers ..they were Carp ..
often had to take half the load out to dry it !
---
General drying -depends a lot on how effective spin was ..
(none of these quick washes -need to add a long spin)
---
Seasonal variation , once start wearing thicker cottons , from synthetics -- Cottons take for ever !
---
(I always love a no detergent - Empty hot wash to de-gunk ..all these Fabric softener slimes )
Modern machines barely seem to have enough water in them these days.. ffs

 

[marconi]

GBDamo: I wondered - I seem to live my life either wondered or wildered* - what you did to fix this problem?

* wildering - Google Search - https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB822GB822&sxsrf=ACYBGNQMDw27N_bJTMtYWoXzgOMDywtoRw%3A1577122545750&ei=8foAXr6vLYqCgAaE8ZwQ&q=wildering&oq=wildering&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i70i249j0i10j0j0i10l7.14108.28261..36078...3.5..0.184.2476.24j4......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39i70i249j0i67j0i22i30j0i20i263j0i131j0i273i70i249j0i273j35i39j0i131i67j0i67i70i249.Xltn8nEWw8M

 

[GBDamo]

GBDamo: I wondered - I seem to live my life either wondered or wildered* - what you did to fix this problem?

* wildering - Google Search - https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB822GB822&sxsrf=ACYBGNQMDw27N_bJTMtYWoXzgOMDywtoRw%3A1577122545750&ei=8foAXr6vLYqCgAaE8ZwQ&q=wildering&oq=wildering&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i70i249j0i10j0j0i10l7.14108.28261..36078...3.5..0.184.2476.24j4......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39i70i249j0i67j0i22i30j0i20i263j0i131j0i273i70i249j0i273j35i39j0i131i67j0i67i70i249.Xltn8nEWw8M

Didn't, it's getting replaced.

The official line was "poor airflow to condenser"

Does worry me the next will do the same.

 

[static zap]

May be an interesting project to post pics of what ends up in
door filter trap / wagos /screws etc.
After a few cheap tissue disasters , I wonder if things are clogging somewhere.
(will only discover if can strip old machine ! )
(That exploring part of me -still very adventurous )
(If it doesn't need to go back together )
(Enemies include -ceased metal / welded plastic )

 

[marconi]

Pure speculation...Sounds like reduced performance from the blower fan or some obstruction. I have read how fabric conditioner can become coated on the temperature sensors which then acts as a layer of thermal insulation - if this was happening then the circulating air would be hotter and maybe detected by the over heat sensor as such.

I have coped now out from fixing our home's white goods and have insured them all for repair of replacement. Too difficult to kneel, bend or contort my body to be able to wrestle with modern machines.

 

[static zap]

Drunken thoughts.
Do these "snake oil "- Cure all - Washing machine "Survival pills" ..actually work on washer driers ... ?
Never owned -( nor wished to) a W/Drier
NOR bought AS advertised Snake Oil !
(Don't believe TV ads - the truth may be out there -but in a distorted form)
--
a) Other thoughts are you in a hard or soft water area ?
b) Do you have a water softener .... (Visited plumb forum --oops)

 

[marconi]

Dear Static zap - now you have sobered up )) - what is the thinking behind your water softener question?

 

[static zap]

Random ,hunt for factors un-known.
(probably brain washed -by advert of "Crusty machine" ... )
Water flow good , heat transfer suspect ?
Do like too much softener /Bold theory.
(realization low temperatures will probably nullify those "sheet" products .
,just leaves that sticky goo product -For fresh tumble dried fragrence !)

 

[marconi]

See cleaning the sensor in:

Tumble Dryer Tips And Maintenance - Which? - https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/tumble-dryers/article/tumble-dryer-tips-and-maintenance