Discuss Went to quote, discovered recent EICR has fabricated results. How to proceed with client? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I went to quote for remedial work in a flat yesterday. The client is selling the flat and wants an EICR for the purposes of the sale. The last week they had an NIC electrician who performed an EICR, which they then sent to me. Worth mentioning at this point that a neighbouring flat had caught fire due to a suspected electrical fault, so attention extra attention to detail here would be necessary.

There was a C1 on the EICR as well as a couple of C2's. The C2's were wooden backboxes, and metal light fixtures with no CPC.

The C1 was no earth from supply to C.U.

First alarm bell was that the client wasn't aware of the significance of this C1.

The second alarm bell was that all insulation resistance readings were >500 meg ohms, and it's an old installation.

The third was that the customer told me the previous electrician was in a rush when he was there.

So I got there, and started referencing the EICR against what I saw. First thing I noticed was that the one ring main was labelled as being on a 32a CB, when in fact it was on a 16a breaker. Hmm. So as I normally do, I did a few of my own tests to check the results against the EICR. R1 end to end was around 0.32, fine - that checked out, but for RN it was 0.48. On the EICR R1 was 0.33, and RN was 0.34. Fourth alarm bell.

I didn't even both doing end to end R2 on the ring as one end didn't even reach the earth bar, the tinned strands had simply been twisted together behind the fuses with one end in the earth bar, though there was a an entry for R2 on the EICR, which surprise surprise was exactly what you'd expect it to be if R1 and RN were both in fact 0.33.

At this point I decided to stop, and that the previous electrician hadn't really done an EICR, he'd just walked around bit, opened the fuse board, done a couple of tests and decided to fabricate results as it was too much work.

Oh also, as it only took me two minutes, I rectified the C1 before leaving and tested, all it cost me was 30 cm of 16mm.

I need to get back to the customer today to inform them of what I found, and also tell them that I'm unable to quote for the remedial work without having an accurate EICR to work from. I'm tempted to report the electrician to the NIC myself, but unsure as to leave that decision to the customer or not.

What would you guys do in this situation, it's a new one for me.

Thanks
 
D

Deleted member 26818

You can report the other electrician, but the NICEIC won’t do anything, as you’re not the customer.
One thing I would check, is whether the other electrician is registered with the NICEIC to conduct Periodics.
If he’s using NICEIC forms and putting his NICEIC number on the forms, but is only registered for Part P, they may have something to say about that?
 

Andy78

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
All you need to say is your opinion as you have done here. Best to be honest and pull no punches. The NICEIC wont entertain a complaint from anyone but the customer.
 
Caveating this with the fact it's just a pure layman's opinion - but please try to ensure he gets reported one way or another. There's "not doing a thorough job" and there's "fabricating readings and not making the customer aware of an easily fixable C1".

I'd certainly encourage the customer to do it first, they may also be more likely to get a refund for the original EICR that way which would be a plus for them.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
You can report the other electrician, but the NICEIC won’t do anything, as you’re not the customer.
One thing I would check, is whether the other electrician is registered with the NICEIC to conduct Periodics.
If he’s using NICEIC forms and putting his NICEIC number on the forms, but is only registered for Part P, they may have something to say about that?
I'll let the customer know that they can report him if they wish then.

I find this sort of thing really frustrating, gives us all a bad name, wastes time, and not only that - there were kids in that flat and they're trusting the guy for a report on safety.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Caveating this with the fact it's just a pure layman's opinion - but please try to ensure he gets reported one way or another. There's "not doing a thorough job" and there's "fabricating readings and not making the customer aware of an easily fixable C1".

I'd certainly encourage the customer to do it first, they may also be more likely to get a refund for the original EICR that way which would be a plus for them.
My thinking exactly.
 
Step 1 of NICEIC complaints procedure is for the client to approach the contractor with their concerns first. They are pretty immovable on this.
 
T

The Ghost

Personally I do not think you will get very far pursuing the route of complaint for evidential reasons. The other could say it was a typo/mistake and muddy the waters easily. It is very moot your supposition that results were fabricated. That is not having a go at you it is just how evidence works. Given the other stories on here of more flagrant breaches of professionalism and inactivity on the part of schemes it is unlikely that anything of import will happen except you alarm the customers and waste energy. Not a very bright analysis I agree but pragmatic. I would say. You say you were called to do an EICR but one was already done. Do you mean do the remedials? In any event I would do appropriate tests for your own list of remedials and present this to the customer and let them work it out for themselves reading between the lines. As no doubt they will be puzzled as to the disparate nature of the statements in each report/quote.
 

DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
Advent Win
Out of interest, why did they want a different electrician doing the remedials?
 
T

The Ghost

It is the trend nowadays to get different electrician as there is a conflict of interests in EICR and remedials.
 
D

Deleted member 26818

When I do EICRs, it’s on the basis that I just do the inspection and make the report.
I’m not Part P registered so I would tell them I can’t do any of the remedial work.
I have done some stuff, such as blank off a socket, add an RCD socket, mark up switch wires, put labels on CUs, sleeving on CPCs, etc.
I feel it’s better for them to know, I’m not touting for work.
 

telectrix

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
all you do is make customer aware of what needs doing, point out any discrepancies in the original eicr, quote a price. then it's up to him/her/it (we have to be gender neutral these days :eek::eek:.)
 
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