Young boy killed in pub garden

[Lister1987]

@dseselectric has done an analysis of the recent horrific case of Harvey Tyrell and the subsequent court case finding the 'electrician' not guilty.

Made for interesting watching.

 

[Midwest]

I don' like things like this. The person in the video is suggesting all sorts of things. The parents of that young boy may come across this video. They may come across this thread.

Far enough to discuss this subject, but not a specific set of circumstance, that have been ruled in court. I don't think this video should be allowed. Investigatory journalism is troublesome, and can land you in trouble, IMO.

 

[telectrix]

the problem with prosecutions of this kind is that the circuit may have been compliant/safe at the time it was done, but could have deteriorated since. due to corrosion etc. as said, it's up to the prosecution to prove guilt. having said that, wasn't part pee supposed to eliminate any chance of bodged electrical works? nada. no policing of dodgy "electricians" untill a case like this arises. just a means of generating income for the likes of niceic.

 

[nicebutdim]

Some additional court reporting from the Romford Recorder in this article, which also provides images of the DB to which this circuit had been connected and notable is the absence of additional protection. This work was undertaken in the early part of 2108, at which time AM3 was in force.

 

[Lister1987]

Some additional court reporting from the Romford Recorder in this article, which also provides images of the DB to which this circuit had been connected and notable is the absence of additional protection. This work was undertaken in the early part of 2108, at which time AM3 was in force.

That was mentioned in the video I believe.

I don' like things like this. The person in the video is suggesting all sorts of things. The parents of that young boy may come across this video. They may come across this thread.

Far enough to discuss this subject, but not a specific set of circumstance, that have been ruled in court. I don't think this video should be allowed. Investigatory journalism is troublesome, and can land you in trouble, IMO.

I don't dislike it, you can argue 'too soon' but why not? Courts can, and do, get it wrong because the law isn't infallible. I grant you HTs parents may come across the video but I would like to think the fact that an electrician has cared enough to dissect and analyse with an aim to educate, not just to (excuse the phrase) ' teabag a corpse'. Had it been a video about how bad the parents were, why he wasn't by thier side, in view at all times and controlled, then it'd be an entirely different thing.

Why the local authority aren't in the dock on this one I have no idea, it's a licensed premises; why was it not a term of the license that it the premises is electrically sound, safe and certified for continued use? The fact that they had warned him several times previous about the state of the electrics and yet, somehow was still allowed to trade I find utter (to quote the accused) -------s.

If we aren't engaging in conversation when things like this happen then how will we learn, how will we influence change and how will ensure that something like this doesn't happen again?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Local authority should be taken to court by the HSE for not carrying out their duties, like h...l they will.

 

[Midwest]

That was mentioned in the video I believe.

I don't dislike it, you can argue 'too soon' but why not? Courts can, and do, get it wrong because the law isn't infallible. I grant you HTs parents may come across the video but I would like to think the fact that an electrician has cared enough to dissect and analyse with an aim to educate, not just to (excuse the phrase) ' teabag a corpse'. Had it been a video about how bad the parents were, why he wasn't by thier side, in view at all times and controlled, then it'd be an entirely different thing.

Why the local authority aren't in the dock on this one I have no idea, it's a licensed premises; why was it not a term of the license that it the premises is electrically sound, safe and certified for continued use? The fact that they had warned him several times previous about the state of the electrics and yet, somehow was still allowed to trade I find utter (to quote the accused) -------s.

If we aren't engaging in conversation when things like this happen then how will we learn, how will we influence change and how will ensure that something like this doesn't happen again?

Don't know why, but some electrician making some sort of case after the fact, then posting a video on social media, just doesn't sit right with me. I gave up watching after a few minutes.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

It makes a good point. I think @dseselectric struck the right tone and highlights how its the eawr1989 that is the over riding principle here and which is often poorly understood.
You are guilty until proven innocent when something goes wrong. So always keep paperwork and photos of the job as finished and left

 

[Lister1987]

The thing I can't understand is that the HSE report and transcripts of the court case aren't available for public purusal. I would have thought a case like this they would be a matter of public record, shame as I really want to see the HSE report.

 

[Lister1987]

Local authority should be taken to court by the HSE for not carrying out their duties, like h...l they will.

My thoughts exactly. Another reason I'd love to see the court transcripts

 

[Mike Johnson]

The HSE report will not be available until the case is resolved and the report is prepared.

 

[FatAlan]

Anyone know if the pub was a freehold or if the landlord was tied to a brewery chain and being dangled by the goulies for every penny?

 

[Mike Johnson]

According to the newspapers he bought the PH for £900,000 so presumably freehold.

 

[Myles Evans]

Parents of electrocuted boy, 7, sob in court watching CCTV of his final moments

THE parents of a little boy killed by an electric shock as he played in a pub garden sobbed in court today as they watched CCTV of his final moments. Harvey Tyrrell, seven, suffered a massive shock…

www.thesun.co.uk

Not sure if this has been posted before but it just goes to show that eventually someone does get hurt. We’ve all seen loads of jobs where we wonder how it didn’t kill someone.

The terminology in the article is bad, but reading between the lines it sounds like no rcd protection and no cpc at class 1 outside lights. Probably poorly fitted too no doubt. By an ‘electrician’ with 50 years experience! He should really be facing jail time imo.

It doesn’t surprise me that it was a pub. Most of them are death traps from what I’ve seen.

Interesting take on it in this YouTube video by DSES, with lots of references to articles.

Landlord got done, and the ‘electrician’ getting pulled up by HSE on other matters as he was acquitted of the manslaughter.
DSES talk

 

[pc1966]

Seems like the pub owner has been jailed for 9 years, and the "electrician" for one:

Harvey Tyrrell death: Pub owner jailed over boy's electrocution death

Seven-year-old Harvey Tyrrell was found unresponsive by a friend outside the King Harold pub in 2018.

www.bbc.com

 

[Dartlec]

Also some info here

Men sent to prison over death of schoolboy Harvey Tyrrell

A pub landlord and an electrician have both been jailed following the death of seven-year-old Harvey Tyrrell at a Harold Wood pub.

www.romfordrecorder.co.uk

Clearly no good outcome from something like this, but perhaps the sentence will make some pub (and house) landlords think a little bit as well as some handymen who dabble with electrics.

Hopefully in due course a full report might be published which goes into the forensic detail of what went wrong and where...

 

[James]

Naylor denied any wrongdoing and told police in an interview that he was an electrician with 50 years' experience and believed his work to be "first class".

Just because we have been doing it for years, doesn't mean we are any good at it!!

I personally enjoy working with other sparks on some jobs because it gives an impartial view about your own work and working practices.

Although nobody to date has managed to tell me and back it up, that the work i am doing is wrong or dangerous, a handful of people over the years have picked me up on a point here or there and shown me a better way of doing it.
the people that have managed to do this are people who i hold in high respect.

but the case should remind us all that what we do for a living can and will land us in jail if we don't do it correctly.

Rest in Peace, Harvey

 

[pc1966]

Naylor denied any wrongdoing and told police in an interview that he was an electrician with 50 years' experience and believed his work to be "first class".

Just because we have been doing it for years, doesn't mean we are any good at it!!

That guy's view is either hubris or an attempt to pretend he did not realise the situation the pub's electrics were in.

I have little sympathy for him, but can't comment in any detail until I can see some of the technical details of the evidence prepared for the trial.

 

[Lister1987]

I just hope this leads to EAWR getting a much needed overhaul.

 

[Dartlec]

That guy's view is either hubris or an attempt to pretend he did not realise the situation the pub's electrics were in.

I have little sympathy for him, but can't comment in any detail until I can see some of the technical details of the evidence prepared for the trial.

He lost any possible sympathy when he claimed that "it was the responsibility of the National Inspection Council to test any work (organised by the pub management)"