Electric vans

[bigspark17]

Any body have or thinking about getting an electric van?

im considering the vivaro e. The 50kw battery will do 143 miles which is more than enough for me. With the goverment grant of 20% off zero emmisions vans up to £8000 its coming out at onlu a few grand more than a new vivaro diesel. British made and also a good usefor the BBL. any views?

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

What sort of price are we talking? so how much is the Vivaro electric after the grant and how much is a diesel one?
I have just test drove a Ford Kuga plug in hybrid on a 24 hour test drive and was very impressed so would consider something like the Vivaro.

 

[bigspark17]

Roughly diesel start at around £25k
Electric start £36 with a grant of 20% brings it under £29k. Obviously before any extras.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Have a look at leasing rather than buying, may be a better option.

 

[UNG]

Any body have or thinking about getting an electric van?

im considering the vivaro e. The 50kw battery will do 143 miles which is more than enough for me. With the goverment grant of 20% off zero emmisions vans up to £8000 its coming out at onlu a few grand more than a new vivaro diesel. British made and also a good usefor the BBL. any views?

Is the 143 miles real world use or the maximum expected under perfect ideal world conditions
Finding out that the range drops to less than half that when fully loaded driving into a headwind while it's raining and -5ͦc outside after you have bought it could be an expensive mistake
I think I would want a demonstrator vehicle on loan for a few days or even a week to test if it is a viable choice before jumping in and buying one.

 

[ian.settle1]

Does the 143 miles also take into account during the winter when you will have the heater on full, wipers going etc

 

[MJPD29]

I wouldn't even consider purchasing one due to the mileage. Is that figure real world driving also?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Buddy of mine has just changed his electric Toyota to a Kia, this is purported to achieve 250miles on one charge?

The Toyota was supposed to achieve 120miles, but in reality only 80.

 

[pc1966]

The 50kw battery will do 143 miles which is more than enough for me.

What is your typical daily mileage? As other have said you could fine the marketing figure is almost double the real-world results.

Generally electrics do will in built up areas as a lot of the braking is regenerative (not just heating the disks) and you are not battling wind resistance at motorway speeds. But things like heating / demisting / air-con (if fitted!) etc will soak up quite a bit.

Eventually a lot of sites will have charging options, but given a lot of sites you visit for work might well be under construction you can't depend on that!

I live in a Victorian era block of flats (4+4 with common entrance) and sod-all chance of charging in the street so for me it is a total no-go for the foreseeable future.

 

[Mike Johnson]

With the amount of pushing the electric car is getting I am just concerned that our infrastructure will not be able to keep up, no matter how many monstrous wind farms are used to blight the landscape, I understand from a post on here somewhere that Bristol already has a problem.

Just to add insult to injury, Eurotunnel has priority parking and free fuelling points for electric cars, I have asked where I can fill up my conventional car for nothing, hmmm still waiting for an answer.

 

[nicebutdim]

What I can not reconcile, and none of the experts seem keen to address, is the horrendous cost that would be associated with battery replacement. I imagine the protection circuitry will allow for individual cells coming to the end of their life, but at some point batteries will need to be replaced and I can not help seeing this as rendering EVs beyond economical repair - as such there is likely to be a collapse in resale values of EVs over a certain age.

To be fair to Tesla, they do seem to take this into account and seem keen to rent or lease vehicles, with the manufacturer retaining ownership and therefore responsibility for the battery.

While there will be an economic argument for many EV owners - no congestion charge etc - for many others an EV may well become something of a burden after several years of ownership. With the resourses required for their production and legacy issues likely to stem from short battery/vehicle lifespan, I can not help thinking that we'll soon look back at EVs as a horrendous mistake and ask why so much money was thrown at them, to the detriment of more realistic technologies.

 

[UNG]

With the amount of pushing the electric car is getting I am just concerned that our infrastructure will not be able to keep up, no matter how many monstrous wind farms are used to blight the landscape, I understand from a post on here somewhere that Bristol already has a problem.

Just to add insult to injury, Eurotunnel has priority parking and free fuelling points for electric cars, I have asked where I can fill up my conventional car for nothing, hmmm still waiting for an answer.

The biggest infrastructure problem is the DNO cables in the ground. Without a major network upgrade I don't see how it can stand a massive increase in load that EV charging will present. Most of the network was installed between the 1930's and 50's and is mainly 16mm² and 25mm² 4c cable, it's interesting looking at the DNO network plans to see how many properties are served off one 16mm² cable along a street and diversity if you can call it that is certainly pushed beyond limits and EV charging will probably be the straw that breaks it's back

 

[Zerax]

I can not help thinking that we'll soon look back at EVs as a horrendous mistake and ask why so much money was thrown at them, to the detriment of more realistic technologies.

Such as ??

I think the question is more about battery vs. hydrogen... but both are EV.
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I have asked where I can fill up my conventional car for nothing...

I assume you mean conventional to you ? Conventional to others may mean the 'new fangled' EV cars ? The 'new conventional' ??

I think Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) cars is probably a better term to differentiate old conventional and new conventional.

 

[nicebutdim]

Such as ??

I think the question is more about battery vs. hydrogen... but both are EV.

Good point and, yes, I was specifically thinking about hydrogen. Obviously all vehicles require significant resources to manufacture, but those powered by Lithium battery technology are particularly resource hungry and with the added drawback of limited battery life.

My advice to the OP would be to seriously consider the electric option if they change vehicles at a fairly young age, but not if they like to keep them for longer periods. A diesel Vivaro might realistically be expected to be in service for two decades, in some way or other, but I honestly don't see the current crop of EVs managing to continue in economical use beyond 6-8 years.
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I assume you mean conventional to you ? Conventional to others may mean the 'new fangled' EV cars ? The 'new conventional' ??

I think Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) cars is probably a better term to differentiate old conventional and new conventional.

I don't see EVs being used widely enough to yet warrant the term "conventional".

 

[Zerax]

Interesting thread...

I need to get a new van myself, so have been learning all I can about electric ones. There are lots of aspects to whether they work for me or not;

-Will an electric van work for me (range, power, charging etc.) ?
-How does it drive with a full load of stock, tools etc ?
-Driving in the winter might be a bit chilly if the heater has to be turned off for range
-What's the reliability of fast chargers around me if I need to use them ?
-What happens if there's a large scale power outage ?
-Will there be many more restricted areas for non EU6 vans ?
-What will the future resale values be like ?
-What's the future resale values of diesel vans going to be like ?
-Etc. etc.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I think at this early stage in the development of electric vehicles it would be fool hardy to buy one, the better option, if you really want to go that route would be to lease on a three year option, full service cost and maintenance included, in fact you just have to pay for insurance, no road tax?

 

[UNG]

I think at this early stage in the development of electric vehicles it would be fool hardy to buy one, the better option, if you really want to go that route would be to lease on a three year option, full service cost and maintenance included, in fact you just have to pay for insurance, no road tax?

EV development is hardly in the early stages, development has been ongoing since the 1970's with range still being one of the biggest issues to overcome along with battery longevity

 

[Mike Johnson]

Is that an oxymoron?

 

[UNG]

Take it as you want

Look up Chloride Silent Power they were one of the leading companies in the development of batteries for electric vehicles when they closed in 1996 the company assets were sold at auction but all the batteries and any other commercially sensitive equipment relating to the battery manufacture had been removed to storage at the parent companies HQ for future use and parts of the factory where also off limits during the auction
If the American oil companies lobbying of the US government had failed back in the mid 90's EV history may have been radically different to what it is now as Silent Power were ready to go to market only to be thwarted by the oil companies

If you go back in history the electric vehicle has been around since the mid 1900's it was another 100+ years before they started to develop the technology further to compete with the internal combustion engine

 

[Wilko]

If you go back in history the electric vehicle has been around since the mid 1900's it was another 100+ years before they started to develop the technology further to compete with the internal combustion engine

I had the thrill of riding in this little beauty, a 1959 Ford Prefect that was converted to battery power by my neighbourhood auto electrician, Mr Doring. I recall (probably faultily) that it had 25 HP and a range of 40 miles. It was Sydney in ... err ... well a long time ago.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

the electric vehicle has been around since the mid 1900's it was another 100+ years before they started to develop the technology further to compete with the internal combustion engine

I understand the point you are making and in today's context that is true, but arguably it was competing from day one. Fully functional electric vehicles were around in the mid 1880s and the first racing vehicle to reach 100km/h was electric. Electric cabs and buses were in commercial use in the first decade of the 20th century, before rapid developments in internal combustion performance and economy overtook those of electric vehicles.

 

[Moley]

Only 143 miles range? That's not much of an advance over the years. Bedford (ok, how many remember Bedford?) were selling an electric CF back in 1984 with a range of 50-60 miles. Okay, it did take 8-10 hours to charge but just doubling the range in 36 years isn't much of an improvement. If you want to see the Bedford sales brochure follow this LINK

 

[Mike Johnson]

What was the range of the old Milk Floats?

 

[suffolkspark]

@bigspark17 if your considering a vivaro take a look at the fiat talento.... it's the same van but drastically cheaper, engine and trim vary but it's essentially the same, mate of mine got his for 17k brand new from dealer on 2017.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

With the amount of pushing the electric car is getting I am just concerned that our infrastructure will not be able to keep up, no matter how many monstrous wind farms are used to blight the landscape, I understand from a post on here somewhere that Bristol already has a problem.

Just to add insult to injury, Eurotunnel has priority parking and free fuelling points for electric cars, I have asked where I can fill up my conventional car for nothing, hmmm still waiting for an answer.

We will have a serious problem after 2025 when gas is banned from new build houses .

 

[Mike Johnson]

Well the problem could be solved with new power stations to produce more electricity, being a bit of a cynic I wonder if the push for electric everything is a precursor to the Government implementing a push on Nuclear power without too many objections.

 

[DPG]

Well the problem could be solved with new power stations to produce more electricity, being a bit of a cynic I wonder if the push for electric everything is a precursor to the Government implementing a push on Nuclear power without too many objections.

Hope so. We need more nuclear power. I'm all for renewables, but it needs to be in conjucntion with something more consistent.

 

[UNG]

Well the problem could be solved with new power stations to produce more electricity, being a bit of a cynic I wonder if the push for electric everything is a precursor to the Government implementing a push on Nuclear power without too many objections.

Please explain how producing more electricity will help (see post #12) when the DNO networks are on the limit now

 

[cloverman]

With the new government initiative, We will all be on pedal power becoming a fit and slender nation.
No more cars required !

On a serious note, I feel we are a long way off in the push to make everyone go down the route of electric vehicle, perhaps in the big cities they may be more common place, But I can't see it anytime soon in the rural areas of the UK

 

[DPG]

With the new government initiative, We will all be on pedal power becoming a fit and slender nation.
No more cars required !

On a serious note, I feel we are a long way off in the push to make everyone go down the route of electric vehicle, perhaps in the big cities they may be more common place, But I can't see it anytime soon in the rural areas of the UK

I agree, it makes sense for town and city commutes. The cars can cope with the shorter journeys, there are charge points available, and it keeps pollution down in urban areas.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Please explain how producing more electricity will help (see post #12) when the DNO networks are on the limit now

Because the infrastructure will have to be improved along with the increase in power requirements, I can't believe you really are that naive or are you just being obtuse.
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I agree, it makes sense for town and city commutes. The cars can cope with the shorter journeys, there are charge points available, and it keeps pollution down in urban areas.

Surely town and city commuters should be using public transport.

 

[OnlQQker]

You may be able to increase the mileage by adding something like this?

 

[James]

I get the idea but do you think the extra energy harvested from the sun overcomes the extra energy required to overcome air resistance?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Well the spoiler effect will hold the back end down at speed, shame it's a front wheel drive car.

Also in stealth mode, no number plate.

 

[Ian Mills]

Hi I would say the long term answer is a plugin hybrid but not what is being built at the moment it has to have a small diesel or petrol engine maybe under 1L and a electric motor, it needs a range of 30 miles off of the battery and the engine is used for faster travel like motorways and out of town driving, once in town you use the electric, engine also charges the battery and the electric motor is used to help acceleration and going up hills, most pollution can be cut using this system, but you will have to change the way you drive, you can also use waste heat from engine to heat car/van

 

[Mike Johnson]

The Porsche and VW air cooled engines have heat exchangers on the exhaust to heat the cab and always have, so not a new idea, in fact pre the second world war.

 

[Ian Mills]

The Porsche and VW air cooled engines have heat exchangers on the exhaust to heat the cab and always have, so not a new idea, in fact pre the second world war.

The engine could still be water cooled, something like a mini-digger engine driving a auto box, with inputs from that and electric motor, revs of engine change very slowly add blue and partical filter on exhaust, I have been told that the latest diesels exhaust gasses are cleaner that what it breathes in in some cities, not sure how true that is but here is a link Can diesel engines CLEAN urban air? | Motoring Research - https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/can-diesel-engines-clean-urban-air

 

[Zerax]

EV development is hardly in the early stages, development has been ongoing since the 1970's with range still being one of the biggest issues to overcome along with battery longevity

I think that for most people (not everyone, before someone screams at me), range is now acceptable. 100 miles a day for a jobbing house bashing sparky is plenty for most. But I can see that for maybe a maintenance guy, that spends most of his time on the road rather than on a site, it might not be for him. A fast charger can give you 80% capacity while you're eating your lunch though...

 

[Mike Johnson]

Next you will be telling us that the manufacturers statement "Self charging Hybrids" is not an oxymoron, the hyperbole message given by that statement is beyond belief, 100miles is not enough to sustain any kind of realistic life style in a modern age, we are not there yet, but the Kia with it's 250mile range is certainly getting close.

 

[James]

The problem is probably 80% of cars do less than 100miles a day on average.
15,000 miles a year is only 40miles a day.
As a population, we are not ready to accept that our dalily run about is unable to take us on the family holiday of 200miles each way without spending 2 x 1 hour charge breaks in the journey.
Most people would save enough by running a cheep electric car day to day, to hire a gas burner for the 2 week holiday but we are not good at compromising our convenience for the environment.