overide switch

[eddielarge]

hi

I have a simple job to wire a 4 bed house , however i cant get my head around the cheapest way to sort out a problem the customer has posed for me.

here goes

Master bedroom has centre light and 2 wall lights both on separate switches , then the en-suite has a walk-in wardrobe which had 3 led down lighters and en-suite had 4 led lights both on separate switches. all that is fine to me .

the customer wants a switch by the bed to basically turn off all of those lights at once when she is in bed.
and then the next day just switch lights on as usual .

there is no point taking the feed via that switch because they would have to turn that switch back on in order for lights to work.

i can definitely do this using a loxone mini server but wondered if there is a cheaper obvious was I'm missing , as hotels normally have this system in place

 

[tazz]

Take a live feed to the bed master switch, which then feeds all other switches. the master switch would need to be turned back on in the morning.
or as hotels do, bank of 3 switches all 2 way to bathroom, main bedroom etc

 

[oldtimer]

why is this in the arms ?

 

[eddielarge]

Why where should it be old timer

 

[eddielarge]

Tazz I did state but probably not clear that I wanted to avoid feeding the switch by the bed as it then needs to be switched on it other switches won't work. And making them all 2-way would mean 4 switches at the bed and she just wants one.

 

[oldtimer]

Why where should it be old timer

Maybe in the general section

 

[eddielarge]

Ok will do.

 

[D Skelton]

I'd be using a Graffik Eye for this. The job could be done using a mixture of latching and non latching relays if you've much experience with control circuits. The only other way as previously mentioned would be to have the main bedroom feed switched from by the bed. I agree that this would be poor design though.

 

[eddielarge]

I might just suggest fitting a loxone mini server just hoped I was missing a simple solution.

 

[tazz]

As I stated previously, most hotels used multi pole grid switches at the bedhead with 2-way from each

 

[D Skelton]

As long as the customer is aware of the difference in cost for just a small convenience, it leaves the onus on them to work out whether the benefit of this convenience outweighs the cost of installing the right equipment to do the job

 

[Octopus]

Actually specing like should be in the arms, out of the way of the prying eyes of the DIY crowd.

 

[telectrix]

just make sure that when you've got her bent over the bed, biting the pillow, that she can reach the switch.

 

[eddielarge]

I was thinking that if she had a loxone mini server for £400 then I could also run the whole upstairs and then all rooms would have a one button all off switch and also

 

[tazz]

You can replace the other switches with a change-over contactor....but at the end which ever method of conventional wiring you use, the be all and end all is the master switch will need to be switched back for normal operation of the lights...so you have answered the question of using the high priced server method

 

[Robotstar5]

Connect the bedside switch across live & neutral, operating it will turn off all the lights, although she will have to reset the mcb in the morning

Just had a look at the Loxone, a mini plc would be cheaper - link

 

[Octopus]

4 gang 2 way switch by bed, 2 way switches elsewhere. Anything else is daft.

 

[D Skelton]

Agree with Murdoch, that's what I'd try and persuade the customer to have, however at the end of the day, what the customer wants the customer gets. If they're adamant about this lights off feature, either relay/plc it up, or spend the money on something decent. I wouldn't entertain the idea of using Luxone, it's cheap chang wang rubbish.

 

[eddielarge]

Murdoch , 4 gang will look too busy , but probably the cheapest option

 

[Octopus]

Murdoch , 4 gang will look too busy , but probably the cheapest option

Give her the options. anything other than 2 way switching is daft IMHO

 

[eddielarge]

why is a mini server a daft idea, 1 switch which can also link into heating and blind control if needed , surely its the way forward

 

[D Skelton]

It's a daft idea because if your customer has her heart set on one switch as opposed to a 3 gang switch then you could pick up a £60 PLC that would do the job fine. Why over engineer things? Does the customer need heating and blind control?? I'm guessing not.

 

[tazz]

It's a daft idea because if your customer has her heart set on one switch as opposed to a 3 gang switch then you could pick up a £60 PLC that would do the job fine. Why over engineer things? Does the customer need heating and blind control?? I'm guessing not.

Been saying this all the way through this post

 

[Silly Sausage]

Been saying this all the way through this post

Today's sunshine must be frying peoples brains!

 

[eddielarge]

It's a daft idea because if your customer has her heart set on one switch as opposed to a 3 gang switch then you could pick up a £60 PLC that would do the job fine. Why over engineer things? Does the customer need heating and blind control?? I'm guessing not.

Hi ive never used a plc switch, so this will allow 4 separate circuits to be turned off from one switch then revert back to normal so the switches will still work as normal without having to turn the plc back on

 

[D Skelton]

Yes, but you'll need to know how to use basic ladder logic which if you've never done then forget it.

Saying the customer has her heart set on an all lights off switch by the bed. What exactly do you want it to achieve when it is pressed?

Do you want it to turn off any lights that are on and leave it as that, or do you want it to turn those specific lights back on again when pressed for a second time? Or, do you want it to turn any lights that are on off, and then when pressed for a secong time turn just the main light on?

 

[eddielarge]

she was after a system that was a one button solution to turn off any light that was still on ( bed room main/ wall lights/ walk in wardrobe / en-suite) and then it all reverts to normal and if she gets out of bed and she wants to turn on just the wardrobe she can , without re-energising the power from the wall switch. i know she don't want heating and blind control , but loxone is the only way i know how to do. but the server is 429 less discount so pricey, but just thought once she had it the options to expand were there

 

[D Skelton]

You could do it for half that price with relays

 

[tazz]

You could do it for half that price with relays

Would need 2 switches per light, one to energised and latch relay,another to break supply to relay

 

[D Skelton]

No, for four seperate lighting circuits it can be done using 4 latching relays, 8 non latching relays and 5 spring push to make switches. One for each lighting circuit and one for the all off button.

 

[tazz]

Any chance of a drawing to explain

 

[D Skelton]

Sure, gimme 15 and I'll knock up a quick MS Paint jobby

 

[D Skelton]

Ok, obviously things would be arranged differently in real life with relays in one central location and switches and lights in their various positions but for ease of understanding, here we go:

 

[D Skelton]

Again, I must say, this is a lot of hassle just for the sake of not having a four gang switch by the bed side but at no more than £200-£300 for the 12 contactors and an enclosure to house them it's a darn sight cheaper than 500 for a small control system!

 

[tazz]

Sorry to sound rude Ian, cant see what terminals are the coil or n/c n/o on the relays
Just show one light circuit for now,

 

[tazz]

Again, I must say, this is a lot of hassle just for the sake of not having a four gang switch by the bed side but at no more than £200 for the 12 contactors and an enclosure to house them it's a darn sight cheaper than 500 for a small control system!

totally when a simple two way 4 gang lighting circuit will do, as most hotel install this way

 

[D Skelton]

The coil is on the right side of each relay, the VF contact is on the left. All non latching relays are n/o.

 

[tazz]

Ok got it, your latching relays are purpose built, apply momentry power to energise, then angain to de-energise. overide to de energise all

 

[D Skelton]

Exactly. But you also need the non latching relays for the circuits to work as intended.

 

[tazz]

These self latching relays or electronic Toggle relays as there call, are expensive little animals, as you have said and I all through this post "Why not fit a 2-way lighting circuit"....???