NICEIC Certification Scheme 18th full course niceic more expense

[the pict]

Any one doing the online course as above I need to as I never did the update to the 3rd ammendment and it seems that isn't uncommon but they have us over a barrel on this one

 

[sparkdog]

I will have to do it as well, another unwelcome expense. You could probably write the changes that matter on the back of a postage stamp.

 

[stevethesparks]

I give up. I'm in the wrong game. Daughter-in-law going to have her eyebrows done £200 FFS.
I'm sick to death of this now constant updating and costs, I really can't wait until I retire.
I know someone who isn't up to date, doesn't notify, and has got s**t loads of work and is far better off than I.
As I'm in my last 5 years, it makes me wonder should I do the same.

 

[the pict]

As I have said before the schemes are making money at our expense and I feel serve they manufacturers more than contractors the latest SPD AFDD and 18th update is just the latest in a long line of industry based profit driven cons and the scheme providers are happy to go along with the free ride and no doubt lunches,

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

Just had my NIC/EIC approved contractor assessment last Monday and I asked him if I needed to go on the 18th Edition course(I already have the 17th Edition qualification).He said that I did't have to go if I didn't want to but to read up to date the changes in the 18th and implement them.The changes in the domestic sector,which I mainly do, aren't all that many so it won't be hard to get up to date.

 

[Octopus]

Just had my NIC/EIC approved contractor assessment last Monday and I asked him if I needed to go on the 18th Edition course(I already have the 17th Edition qualification).

He said that I did't have to go if I didn't want to but to read up to date the changes in the 18th and implement them.

Really, that last bit. Is it confirmed in writing?

 

[sparkdog]

Now you mention it, I think I was told something like that. I will check it out next week.

 

[Octopus]

The 18th edition comes into affect from jan 2019

I can’t imagine that all UK sparks will be upto date with the 18th edition and pass an exam by then....

 

[Briggs69]

I give up. I'm in the wrong game. Daughter-in-law going to have her eyebrows done £200 FFS.
I'm sick to death of this now constant updating and costs, I really can't wait until I retire.
I know someone who isn't up to date, doesn't notify, and has got s**t loads of work and is far better off than I.
As I'm in my last 5 years, it makes me wonder should I do the same.

Totally agree mate 100%. We are a 2man business (niceic members) and we are having to do the 3 day course as we never done the amendment in 2015 and it’s nearly 1k inc vat for 2 of us.just bought 2 regs books and 2 on site guides was another £200. As you say you get a guy down the road with hardly any qualifications and charging no money and getting all the work.rant over

 

[the pict]

To many of us are just rolling over on this me included, but as the only bodies recognised are the scheme providers we are stuffed, they are in bed with the manufacturers, local authorities, BSI,IET, etc how cosy for them, how many fires were prevented by the metal cu saga, how many fires were the result of no SPD or AFDD precious few I would reckon, fires are the result of DIY, non qualified non regulated persons, old & neglected installations, overloaded cabling etc etc, so no matter how many amendments or editions they come up with it will not matter a jot, a change in law and or regulations is what is needed and I do not mean another tier of building control officers or council jobs worths we dont have part P in Scotland thank god but something else needs to be in place similar to what gas fitters have in other words not registered then going anywhere near and electrical installation should carry severe penalties whether damage is caused or not and the insurance companies need to get on board with this also. we need to stamp out this culture of " I know a guy who can do that"
Pict

 

[Octopus]

Wonder what the scams will say next year when thousands of their members don't have the 18th Edition Exam?

 

[the pict]

As usual they will do a terasa may and come up with a fudge meanwhile those of us who went done the be prepared route get humped again

 

[JK-Electrical]

I give up. I'm in the wrong game. Daughter-in-law going to have her eyebrows done £200 FFS.
I'm sick to death of this now constant updating and costs, I really can't wait until I retire.
I know someone who isn't up to date, doesn't notify, and has got s**t loads of work and is far better off than I.
As I'm in my last 5 years, it makes me wonder should I do the same.

If it's any consolation I'm thinking along similar lines. My business is struggling at the moment due me being unable to compete with the ridiculous pocket-money prices that are being charged by underqualified young boys and non-qualified cowboys alike. The last month has been particularly bad and the business operated at a net monthly loss for the first time in many years. This cannot continue otherwise I'm going to be facing bankruptcy within a matter of months. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to win jobs.

In the last few weeks I've lost three jobs to some young muppet who is prepared to make a round trip of 90 miles from Edinburgh through to Glasgow to do EICRs for £60.00 and connect cookers for £25.00. I kid you not. I recently lost another job to some ----- who quoted the customer £180.00 to carry-out an EICR and PA testing and to install two 230 volt smoke alarms and a heat alarm in a two-bedroom property. Seriously.

Sometimes I feel like doing what you're doing and just jack it in, sell all of my tools, equipment and materials and go do something else for the remaining six or seven years of my working life, and may well end-up doing what you are doing. Good luck for the future bud.

 

[the pict]

I was asked once for a PIR at a tenancy change I quoted my usual £240 the owner looked me and said Back home I get them done for £40, to which I replied thank **** none of my kids stay in any of your properties and walked off, however this is all to common we could all do drive by EICR,s at £60 a go we could do 5 a day and be home most of the day, we need legislation for ALL electrical work

 

[JK-Electrical]

To many of us are just rolling over on this me included, but as the only bodies recognised are the scheme providers we are stuffed, they are in bed with the manufacturers, local authorities, BSI,IET, etc how cosy for them, how many fires were prevented by the metal cu saga, how many fires were the result of no SPD or AFDD precious few I would reckon, fires are the result of DIY, non qualified non regulated persons, old & neglected installations, overloaded cabling etc etc, so no matter how many amendments or editions they come up with it will not matter a jot, a change in law and or regulations is what is needed and I do not mean another tier of building control officers or council jobs worths we dont have part P in Scotland thank god but something else needs to be in place similar to what gas fitters have in other words not registered then going anywhere near and electrical installation should carry severe penalties whether damage is caused or not and the insurance companies need to get on board with this also. we need to stamp out this culture of " I know a guy who can do that"
Pict

SELECT are intensely lobbying the Scottish Government to recognise electricians as a profession and give us the recognition and the professional protection that our qualifications, training, knowledge and skills deserve. There is, however, resistance and I wouldn't expect there to be any change in the status quo any time soon, if at all.

The attached file is from the July issue of the SELECT member magazine, Cable Talk. I have it on very good authority that one of the "commercial organisations" who are providing the most resistance to SELECT's proposals is none other than, surprise, surprise, NICEIC, who, it would appear, are hell-bent on monopolising the electrical contracting industry. This makes sense because if electricians were to be given professional status and protection of title in Scotland, then all of the NICEIC's five weeks wonders would be turfed-out on their ear along with all the rest of the under-qualified and relatively inexperienced 'electricians' who are operating in Scotland, and there are plenty. I quote an electrical contractor who is based in the western isles:

I am concerned about the electrical industry on our island.

Main contractors are securing contracts involving electrical work but the work is not being certified or even tested. I have come across some awful installations. At this point I am not naming anyone but it is very clear there are no qualified people at these companies.

The organisations awarding the contracts seem happy to ignore the need for testing and certification. I have not attempted to get any of these contracts and don’t particularly want them but I am concerned about the state these jobs are being left in. When we price work we allow for testing and certification but are usually told we are too expensive. It is impossible to compete against this.

It’s reaching the point where I feel the only option left to me is to slowly pay off my staff, become a “one man band” and just work on my own. (source)

I fully agree with The Pict that no one other than a fully-qualified, registered electrician should ever be let anywhere near an electrical installation. Unfortunately, I think someone in Scotland is going to have to be killed by a rogue installer before the arseholes who run the Scottish Government take any action.

 

[JK-Electrical]

I was asked once for a PIR at a tenancy change I quoted my usual £240 the owner looked me and said Back home I get them done for £40, to which I replied thank **** none of my kids stay in any of your properties and walked off, however this is all to common we could all do drive by EICR,s at £60 a go we could do 5 a day and be home most of the day, we need legislation for ALL electrical work

Well said bud. I can't get anywhere near £240.00 for an EICR in Glasgow. Even at £125.00 / £150.00, I'm still struggling against the muppets who charge £50 / £ 60 for a "landlord's safety certificate". The Scottish Government's statutory guidance is an absolute joke and not fit for the purpose. The whole system needs to be scrapped and something more stringent put in its place.

 

[stevethesparks]

This morning I attended a short but free seminar put on by Hager, about the upcoming 18th edition. I not only came out more depressed than when I went in, but it looks like they are already gearing up for amendment 1 on the 18th.

 

[sparksfly]

I agree with most of the above comments, I am a one man band and cannot compete with stupidly low EICR's but do carry out a number per year at a reasonable cost to cover time/effort. I will not put my name on "letter box" EICRs and refuse to compete. The issue is educating the public to the amount of work involved to Inspect & Test an installation properly. Also commercial companies selling low subscription electrical cover and cheap tests which are visual & not worth the paper its written on. I compare this to an MOT (except on price!)...look at the tyres for £60 and add unnecessary remedial work to cover costs or spend £240 + for a well documented test to ensure safety of persons and livestock.

As for the 18th course selling...I passed mine in a week by trying out an distance learning course in your own time, bedtime reading the book, the recommended 40-50 hrs was probably half that ...£148 job done incl exam seat....and still went to work.

 

[JK-Electrical]

I agree with most of the above comments, I am a one man band and cannot compete with stupidly low EICR's but do carry out a number per year at a reasonable cost to cover time/effort. I will not put my name on "letter box" EICRs and refuse to compete. The issue is educating the public to the amount of work involved to Inspect & Test an installation properly. Also commercial companies selling low subscription electrical cover and cheap tests which are visual & not worth the paper its written on. I compare this to an MOT (except on price!)...look at the tyres for £60 and add unnecessary remedial work to cover costs or spend £240 + for a well documented test to ensure safety of persons and livestock.

As for the 18th course selling...I passed mine in a week by trying out an distance learning course in your own time, bedtime reading the book, the recommended 40-50 hrs was probably half that ...£148 job done incl exam seat....and still went to work.

Who was the course provider? I'm interested in taking the same route that you did. The alternative is either four days lost business by doing the course during the day, or two three-hour evenings a week spread over four weeks. Neither option works for me.

What rankles me is that I did the BS7671 course to the second ammendment in 2014 only for the third amendment to be added in 2015. Like a lot of other sparks, I didn't do the third amendment update, and because of that, I now have to do the full course. I resent having to spend this time in a classroom learning mostly what I already know and have already passed an exam in. I'm sure I won't be the only one who isn't happy about this requirement. I feel like I'm being royally ----ed-over here.

Then there's the cost. My local college are asking £380 plus VAT. As several other posters have noted, there will be plenty of people who won't bother doing the edition 18th edition course, but who will still get plenty of work regardless. Indeed, I'm aware of a competitor who doesn't even have the 17th edition and doesn't have any formal qualifications in inspection and testing, but who regularly beats me hands-down on price because I just can't compete with his ridiculously low prices. His customers aren't complaining about his "reasonable" prices, that's for sure. If only they knew why he is so cheap.

 

[sparksfly]

HI JK
I did the 17th ed course previously...not amendments but still took the 18th via e-qualified... simple room with computers..location wise they are in Northampton for exam, which maybe a tad far for you but there are others doing distance learning
Home - http://www.e-qualified.co.uk/index.html
At the end of the day even if you sit a 3 day course you would have to swat up before the course to gain any benefit.

As for the cheap EICR's going around...either you stay true to yourself and do a good job for a good wage & for the customer... or you fall big, ending up botching it just for the money with a don't care attitude...I say there will always be cheaper but not good value in the end. As JOHN RUSKIN said...
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When
you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay
too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you
bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The
common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a
lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well
to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will
have enough to pay for something better.”

Good Luck...Hope it helps you