20amp or 13amp switches??

[Kev2632]

Hello, I'm just having a debate with one o my fellow work colleagues, when you go to fit out a kitchen do you use 13amp or 20 amp switches for your fixed appliances e.g fridges, freezers, washin machines etc ?

 

[Dan23584]

I think that the 20A grid switch system is good when there are quite a few appliances, but if you only have a couple of them then a couple of 13A FCU.

 

[Kev2632]

is there any reason why some folk have 13amp FCU controlling the fixed appliances rather than 20amp Switches?

 

[telectrix]

because some sparks don't understand discrimination.

 

[1shortcircuit]

because some sparks don't understand discrimination.

Or the plug has been removed and fitted into a flex outlet with a 13amp fcu above perhaps?

 

[telectrix]

ideal for maintenance when the appliance goes wrong. NOT.

 

[1shortcircuit]

ideal for maintenance when the appliance goes wrong. NOT.

Sounds interesting? Why is this then?

Surely if the power is supplied via a fcu above then safe isolation can be provided to the flex outlet below and therefore maintenace work carried out safely if required?

I'm ready to learn something new today

:thumbsup

 

[keniff]

We normally use a fcu above work top if to a flex outlet below, or a 20amp switch if its a unswitched plug socket below as the fuse in the plug is there, most appliances say they need the fuse what ever the size may be, but if you cut the plug off this can void the warranty :s

 

[1shortcircuit]

We normally use a fcu above work top if to a flex outlet below, or a 20amp switch if its a unswitched plug socket below as the fuse in the plug is there, most appliances say they need the fuse what ever the size may be, but if you cut the plug off this can void the warranty :s

This has been discussed in greater depth in another thread. Going back a while now so not sure that I'll be able to find it.

Thinking about the point Tel made about it not being good for maintainence purposes I guess this is because the appliance cannot just be unplugged and dragged out where work can be done in plenty of space.

Having the appliance hard wired would mean that this would have to be disconnected which is more aggro than simply pulling a plug?

I must admit, the 20a switch and unswitched socket does seem like a very worthwhile consideration now if an installation is at the design stage

Can these be locked off with ease? Actually, scrap that! It wouldn't need locking off would it because the switch will be turned off just whilst the appliance is not plugged into it lol

:thumbsup

 

[Engineer54]

We normally use a fcu above work top if to a flex outlet below, or a 20amp switch if its a unswitched plug socket below as the fuse in the plug is there, most appliances say they need the fuse what ever the size may be, but if you cut the plug off this can void the warranty :s

Correction here, ....You will NOT void any warranty by cutting the moulded plug off an appliance lead!! This has been verified by other members here that have legal members in their families that have confirmed this...

It's just one more of these myths that abound us in this industry, that is kept going by scaremongers that still believe in these myths...

 

[Glen Stimson]

iv'e used both, in fact sometimes iv'e fitted a 20A and unswitched socket but the appliance sticks out so iv'e had to change it to a 13A with flex outlet cos the appliance sits back further.

 

[Darkwood]

Correction here, ....You will NOT void any warranty by cutting the moulded plug off an appliance lead!! This has been verified by other members here that have legal members in their families that have confirmed this...

It's just one more of these myths that abound us in this industry, that is kept going by scaremongers that still believe in these myths...

Only true to a point... yes legally it cant void the warranty but if a fault occurs say to the appliance timer board; and a replaced plug top or spur connection is suspect thus giving voltage spikes is brought into a warranty argument then its harder to prove it wasnt the cause and retain the warranty as youll be asked to do so, if the moulded plug is left on and say a loose connection in the back of the socket caused the fault then its for them to prove which isnt financially worth their while hence they will do the neccesary replacement or repairs.

 

[Engineer54]

???? What the hell is that got to do with chopping a moulded plug top off?? I can understand if you make a cock-up of the connections, but not to the fact of connecting the appliance to FCU!!

 

[SimpleSimon]

iv'e used both, in fact sometimes iv'e fitted a 20A and unswitched socket but the appliance sticks out so iv'e had to change it to a 13A with flex outlet cos the appliance sits back further.

On going job we do in kitchens has a buikding inspector come out to sign the work off. This guy wants 13a FCU switches on the work surface with an appliance plugged into an unswitched socket underneath. No thought for fuse discrimination, its how he wants it and i cant be bothered to explain it to him :banghead:

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[Dan23584]

The advantage of using 20A switches with 1g unswitched s/o's is that you do not need to be there when the kitchen fitter (or whoever) fits the appliance, they can just plug it in.

Although we all know that if flex outlets where used they would connect them anyway.

 

[Darkwood]

???? What the hell is that got to do with chopping a moulded plug top off?? I can understand if you make a cock-up of the connections, but not to the fact of connecting the appliance to FCU!!

I used to repair for most of the major washing machine brands and we were a recognised repair/service company for said brands ... if the moulded plug was missing it wasnt uncommon for the big boys to argue to the warranty customer that a loose connection on the supply flex had caused timer board failure or other electronic devices to be corrupted and although taking the plug off didnt void the warranty they often tried it on that it may have caused premature failure. What im getting at is sometimes its more hassle trying to prove the cause wasnt related to removing the plug top and a possible loose connection made than would be leaving it as delivered and not giving them an angle of blame.... its industry wide is this the big boys dont like to pay out on their own faulty equipment, they will try every trick legal or not to make you give up on a claim while earning money on the 0870 , 0845 etc etc when you call their claims line so just an advisory is to leave appliance as delivered just in case. Agree it shouldnt be the case be in reality it dont work that way.

 

[Engineer54]

In other words, ....they try to intimidate there customers into giving up a claim on faulty equipment!! I think they would have a hard time using that little ploy, and i'm pretty sure that their legal departments wouldn't want to push that one either. I bet they have never gone to a legal court of law over chopping a moulded plug top off?? Not unless they can ''Prove'' that the subsequent connection wasn't a sound one. Especially if that connection was made by a qualified electrician.

I know what your saying, but the fact remains, a warranty isn't made void, on chopping off it's moulded plug top!!

I wouldn't hesitate a second on chopping a moulded plug off, if that is what was required, in order to connect the appliance to a circuit in order to use that appliance.

 

[Geordie Spark]

In other words, ....they try to intimidate there customers into giving up a claim on faulty equipment!! I think they would have a hard time using that little ploy, and i'm pretty sure that their legal departments wouldn't want to push that one either. I bet they have never gone to a legal court of law over chopping a moulded plug top off?? Not unless they can ''Prove'' that the subsequent connection wasn't a sound one. Especially if that connection was made by a qualified electrician.

I know what your saying, but the fact remains, a warranty isn't made void, on chopping off it's moulded plug top!!

I wouldn't hesitate a second on chopping a moulded plug off, if that is what was required, in order to connect the appliance to a circuit in order to use that appliance.

I agree with everything you have said on this subject, & would do exactly the same thing myself and I suspect most of the other folk on this board would too.

However, there are a lot of folk out there in the big wide world who are not as savvy as we are - single mothers, little old ladies and blokes like my two useless sons who struggle to change a light bulb - and it is these folk who get steamrollered by these big companies over warranty issues.

It shouldn't be this way, but it is.

 

[keniff]

???? What the hell is that got to do with chopping a moulded plug top off?? I can understand if you make a cock-up of the connections, but not to the fact of connecting the appliance to FCU!!

Just from what I have found it does, I dont really have time to argue with the manufacturers or the customers if there is a problem with the appliance, so if I do have to cut the plug off I get the customer to "get permission" lol to cut the plug off, just covers my back and saves issues in future