Don't think you can do 2391 anymore you'll have to sit the watered down versions 2394 2395
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Badged01
You heretic, watered down!!! Await the kickings ......
B
Badged01
Thats only because those with the true knowledge understand the value of the 2391. Give it a couple of years when they are replaced with younger versions and its only the 2394/95 that will be recognised as the qualification to have --- whats a 2391?
Purely and utterly my own opinion of course .....
H
humblespark
the 2391 is as said old and no longer in circulation , any companies asking for 2391 can be assured that the 2394-5 is the new version and that your qualifications are newer and fresher 
2391 is for the old farts.
its not dumbed down either its just spread into too hence the higher cost .
although 2394 is rather not worth doing tbh just the 2395 in a set order
2391 is for the old farts.its not dumbed down either its just spread into too hence the higher cost .
although 2394 is rather not worth doing tbh just the 2395 in a set order
Didn't mean to upset anyone lads but I disagree even my instructor said when I was doing my design course that they have made the 2394 2395 easier than the 2391 don't shoot the messenger but the 2391 lads don't have to do the 2394 or 2395 exams again as we have the superior exam
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vernam616
2391 was the daddy of exams
2394 2395 is foolproof so i hear, might have a look for some sample questions
Best way to find out for sure is the check city and guilds website for cheif examiners reports and see what percentage pass rate overall is
on average if i recall correctly the 2391 was 30% pass rate for the UK
2394 2395 is foolproof so i hear, might have a look for some sample questions
Best way to find out for sure is the check city and guilds website for cheif examiners reports and see what percentage pass rate overall is
on average if i recall correctly the 2391 was 30% pass rate for the UK
G
Guest55
i am going to high 5 this post , hell yeah ! ;-)
back in '97 my 2391 was so difficult C&G would only accept exams papers etched in sandstone.
not like the nancy boy ipad generation of today having to do 2 test quals cos 1 was too hard , boo hoo.
;-)
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Badged01
As a holder of the only "true" qualification for I & T (IMHO) I went along to my local college out of interest to look at doing the new I&T tickets to see if it would be of any value. After 15 mins with the lecturer/tutor I realised it wasn't half as stringent or difficult to achieve as the 2400/2391 so declined signing-up for it ........ I guess with education going the way it is, society is just making exams easier for 'new' students so we create the every one is a winner culture!
Of course I could be wrong and we have a new breed of super students and tutors ...... :nono:
Of course I could be wrong and we have a new breed of super students and tutors ...... :nono:
And I'll give you that word badge if I'm honest which I am I had to google it to see what it ment lol you learn something everyday
T
tbs1983
Those that have the 2391 are going to say its more superior.
Those that have or are doing 2394/95 are going to argue its just as difficult.
Its human nature!
As it happens the pass rates are very similar (hover around the 42% mark). So either its just as difficult, or its easier but candidates are not as intelligent these days. (You decide!)
Those that have or are doing 2394/95 are going to argue its just as difficult.
Its human nature!
As it happens the pass rates are very similar (hover around the 42% mark). So either its just as difficult, or its easier but candidates are not as intelligent these days. (You decide!)
Thanks guys thats is waht i was thinking. Was booked in the 2391 a couple of years ago but had to cancel last minute and never got round to booking it again #idiot! I suppose i'll have to do the 2395. Are both the 2394 and the 2395 reqd or does the 2395 a better qualification?
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Badged01
Ideal candidate for the 'new' exams then! If you couldn't spell on your 2400/2391 correctly using your feather pen and ink then that was marks deducted. And if you couldn't get the sums correct to 5 decimals using your slide rule (or pencil and paper if you weren't posh!) then you lost the whole marks for the question.
The new touch-feely, we understand roughly what you mean style of teaching and examination today should suit you :aureola:
MisterE
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2394 is Initial Verification & Certification
2395 is Periodic Inspection, Testing & Certification
When I sat my 2391 it was a 2.5 hr written exam. Not open book, you had to be able to recite GN3 in your sleep and understand what it meant. The exam was made of set questions and a scenario. I didn't pass first time, I knew it was going to be close, everything I had written was right, I just hadn't written enough. In the scenario, a lot of the set questions were involved and if you didn't understand the context of the set question in the scenario, you lost any marks you had gained on the set question even if it was correct. If they mark the 2394 and 2395 the same way then maybe the only benefit is you wouldn't have to re-sit both if you didn't pass one of them, not like with the 2391 when you re-sat the lot.
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iamelectric
download an old 2391 past paper and try it then do the same with 2394 & 2395 papers , then decide if its watered down , b4 doing mine i downloaded loads of 2391 papers some where easier some where harder its just your luck , all the old timers just dont like change so they moan about it being easier 
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Badged01
Thats what I did, instead of trying to know everything for one paper (2391) I just brushed up on the bits required for either the initial insp paper (2394) or the periodic insp paper (2395). I found it so much more easier because you only had to remember half of what you would have needed for the one paper (2391). Questions a bit more length (2394/95) but the subject matter still the same ..... you either know your eggs or you dont, but itmade it a lot easier only having to remember one lot at a time
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RyanHunter
Do you ever think that you find the test papers for the 2394/5 easier because you are out doing this stuff on a daily basis and have been for a long time? This is your routine and flows in your blood.
Taking an exam is completely different to flicking through a past paper and guessing that the answer you have in your head is correct, however what the examiner has as the answer may be different.
Anyone taking the exam will most likely not have been doing this work to the regs over the past 10-20 years.
The only people that will know how hard/easy it is would be someone who took the 2391 and then the next day took the 2394 & 5.
I may be wrong, just my option.
But if one of you 2391 guys want to brave the 2394/5 and let us know if you pass it could be a good experiment
Taking an exam is completely different to flicking through a past paper and guessing that the answer you have in your head is correct, however what the examiner has as the answer may be different.
Anyone taking the exam will most likely not have been doing this work to the regs over the past 10-20 years.
The only people that will know how hard/easy it is would be someone who took the 2391 and then the next day took the 2394 & 5.
I may be wrong, just my option.
But if one of you 2391 guys want to brave the 2394/5 and let us know if you pass it could be a good experiment
B
Badged01
I seriously considered it and went along to my local college to see if it would be of any value and challenge me further in my knowledge/eductaion. After talking with the lecturer/tutor I realised it wasn't going to be anywhere as difficult as the old course/exam so declined signing-up. Having looked at some of the papers also confirmed in my mind how much more simpler it is only having to take 1/2 an exam at a time.
But like I say for you 'new' guys without the experience and knowledge the "old sweats" have (and I dont include myself as knowledgable as the old sweats) I can understand how the C&G's needed to make the course/exams easier so everyone can pass and be a winner!
But like I say for you 'new' guys without the experience and knowledge the "old sweats" have (and I dont include myself as knowledgable as the old sweats) I can understand how the C&G's needed to make the course/exams easier so everyone can pass and be a winner!
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RyanHunter
Not sure about "everyone's a winner", a lot of people on the course with me had failed the practical & multiple choice parts (most likely the written as well, but not spoke since). The people who failed have been apprentices for many years and their day to day job was commercial & domestic electrics.
Maybe C&G have had to make it easier so that all the cowboys out their have no excuse, plus it means that you have the qualification to join NICEIC/NAPIT and therefore building control are aware of who has had work done etc...
Maybe C&G have had to make it easier so that all the cowboys out their have no excuse, plus it means that you have the qualification to join NICEIC/NAPIT and therefore building control are aware of who has had work done etc...
I only jest young one, Im sure its still challenging and taxing. As you get older and longer in the tooth things just seem to be easier but they probably aren't!
G
Guest55
the reason the pass rate for 2391 was so low , and not that much higher for the 2395 , is that candidates are simply not ready to take the course !
inspection is a skill that takes alot of time to master & understand before you contemplate doing any testing exam , new or old.
i had around 2 years testing experience out on my own before doing the 2391 and it was still very tough.
and alot of training centres simply groom students for an exam with re-cycled past papers without actually assessing their experience beforehand and simply saying no , youre not ready for it.
some training centres offer testing courses as a bundle deal with your other C&G 23 whatever , to be done straight after you initial introduction to electrics ???
sorry but where the hell does the experience come from ??
i'm glad the 2391 has ceased , it preserves the integrity of a respected qual.........;-)
inspection is a skill that takes alot of time to master & understand before you contemplate doing any testing exam , new or old.
i had around 2 years testing experience out on my own before doing the 2391 and it was still very tough.
and alot of training centres simply groom students for an exam with re-cycled past papers without actually assessing their experience beforehand and simply saying no , youre not ready for it.
some training centres offer testing courses as a bundle deal with your other C&G 23 whatever , to be done straight after you initial introduction to electrics ???
sorry but where the hell does the experience come from ??
i'm glad the 2391 has ceased , it preserves the integrity of a respected qual.........;-)
I just have to laugh at threads like this!
All who know me know my feelings on the differences between the 2391 and 2394/95. What I find funny is the sheer pompous drivvel spouted by a bunch of sad old gits who are just bitter that things are changing.
There is no evidence whatsoever that suggests that the new T&I quals are dumbed down, every person I have spoken to who has done both (and I know quite a few) has said quite the opposite. The only people who argue the ---- are those who hold the 2391 and have some sort of irrational fear that the new 2394/95 may one day be regarded higher and therefore try their hardest to put down the new 2394/95 at every turn.
Well all I can say is that neither one is better or worse than the other! Neither one will be held in higher regard in ten years time! There is no bloody difference between them academically, only the fact that the old 2391 was far better value for money!
I won't be getting drawn into debate again on this subject, the fact is that they are worth exactly the same and anyone who says otherwise is talking out of their rear end!
All who know me know my feelings on the differences between the 2391 and 2394/95. What I find funny is the sheer pompous drivvel spouted by a bunch of sad old gits who are just bitter that things are changing.
There is no evidence whatsoever that suggests that the new T&I quals are dumbed down, every person I have spoken to who has done both (and I know quite a few) has said quite the opposite. The only people who argue the ---- are those who hold the 2391 and have some sort of irrational fear that the new 2394/95 may one day be regarded higher and therefore try their hardest to put down the new 2394/95 at every turn.
Well all I can say is that neither one is better or worse than the other! Neither one will be held in higher regard in ten years time! There is no bloody difference between them academically, only the fact that the old 2391 was far better value for money!
I won't be getting drawn into debate again on this subject, the fact is that they are worth exactly the same and anyone who says otherwise is talking out of their rear end!
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tbs1983
well said D Skelton. I attended 2391 classes 4-5 years ago but unfortunately failed the written exam. In hindsight I was a bit inexperienced. I then had kids etc etc and never managed to re sit.
Only now am I re-doing the course albeit 2394/95, the content is identical to the 2391, just split into two sections. 2394 (12 weeks @ 3hrs), 2395 (8 weeks @ 3hrs).
Only now am I re-doing the course albeit 2394/95, the content is identical to the 2391, just split into two sections. 2394 (12 weeks @ 3hrs), 2395 (8 weeks @ 3hrs).
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NickD
Obviously hands on experience is important; but so is sound theory and you get that in a classroom, not hands on. And then if you're lucky the two complement each other and grow together to form genuine competence. We seem to hear a lot about the value of experience but not so much about the value of a real grasp of the theory, which I think is a shame. I'm not trying to disparage anyone or any group of people here, but I have had several encounters with the odd "decades of experience" electrician saying the odd thing which showed that theorywise they actually didn't really get it. A classic example was one who swore blind you'd always get appreciable volt drop along a cable, even with no current being carried*. I said hey there's a 50 metre drum, let's measure it, that'd be quick and fun, and suddenly he had somewhere else he had to be.
(*yes I know about insulation leakage, and for AC inductive/capactive effects, hell, there was even a time when I knew about electromagnetic radiative effects too, but having kids purged me of remembering stuff like that - the point is that none of the losses will be appreciable as compared to ohmic voltage drop down the cable caused by load current)
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NickD
Which element or elements do you think have been watered down compared to the 2391? (2394 & 2395 comprise three elements: paper exam, online test, practical I&T assessment). I can only speak for the exam having done plenty of 2391 written past papers and 2394 / 2395 written actual exam, but I can say pretty confidently there wasn't anything really between the two in terms of difficulty.
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Silly Sausage
Don't be so cynical Trev, it's split so there can be two new defined occupations...
1: An Initial Verifier,
2: A Periodic Inspector.
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iamelectric
what annoys me is the fact that i studied for four months solid to do the 94-95 , then you get dummies going to the select/ nic 1 day course where everyone passes no matter how bad you are , and then companies advertise that you have to be with select / nic to do their testing
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Badged01
Definately must be something to do with the dollar but not too sure about the other reason for the split. There was still the fundemental I&T C&G qual (whatever the number was) you could do before the 2391. That sort of seperated the men from the boys ....
Not too sure on the rationale for the latest variation other than the £££££'s!!
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