Discuss 3-Way Dimmer Dilemma in the Lighting Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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He isn't expressing the switch identification incorrectly. In the States and Canada our two way switch is their three way. They are identified by the number of terminals and not their function, an intermediate is known as four way.
 
He isn't expressing the switch identification incorrectly. In the States and Canada our two way switch is their three way. They are identified by the number of terminals and not their function, an intermediate is known as four way.
So if i fit a brass switch do I add a extra way for the earth terminal ?... crazy logic to go by no' of terminals because you can fit 2way and intermediate switches (in our speak) to work a 1 way circuit which we do if we have run out of 1ways on site etc ... now it still wouldn't be confusing here but over there it would mess up the logic of what is been described.
I think the US and Canada need a hard look at itself in the mirror and start using logical language ??
 
Simply out of curiosity then - how do you describe a lighting circuit that is been controlled by 1 sw, 2 sw points and 3 switch points given the various ways you can achieve this using switches.. and how do you differentiate he no' of switch on each plate as we use 'gang' to denote that.
 
Our one way is their two way, our two way is their three way and our two way with intermediate is their four way. I am not sure how they denote "gang".
 
It used to be possible to get dimmers with both a fixed and variable output. I.e. there is a tap-off between the 3-way switch and the dimmer electronics, that responds to the switch but not the dimmer level. If you can find one of these, the fixed output could feed the fluorescent while the variable output feeds the LEDs.

Alternatively, if you have space, you could use a regular dimmer control independent of the 3-way switching, i.e. just added inline with the LED while retaining the existing 3-way switch and its connection to the fluorescent.

The best method would be to upgrade both ends of the 3-way with a smart dimmer at box 2 and a remote control for it at box 1. Instead of two travelers, this normally only needs one and a permanent hot at both ends. Therefore what is now the black traveler gets re-connected as a hot feed, which is then available at box 2 to power the fluorescent via its own switch instead of through the 3-way.

Re terminology, each language and design standard has its own quirks. Some terms make more sense in one language, some in others, some are modern and some are antiquated, just like the designs of fittings. Is the uniquely British term 'consumer unit' actually meaningful if you don't know what it is? The US-English equivalent 'electrical panel' is much more sensible.
 
I am wondering where the neutrals are or whether for clarity he has deliberately omitted them. Assuming that is a cable like Romex between box 1 and box 2 there should be a white core as it only shows black and red travelers.
 
You would imagine so, but it makes no difference to the solution. Although if going with my smart dimmer suggestion having the neutral available widens the choice of suitable products.
 
If there is a unused white which there probably isn't it could be used as a hot to the two way for the fluorescent.
 
I won't be surprised if I'm way out to lunch here, but I'm gonna throw out this idea anyway, at the risk of ridicule. Since current would flow through either the red or black traveller wires (but not both at the same time), could I not pigtail off both of them in Box 2 and use that to feed the single-pole switch, rather than using the output from the dimmer to feed the single-pole switch? Still a 50/50 chance I'd have to flip the 3-way switch first, but I'd be able to power the fluorescent with fixed output.
 
It can be done with a little control circuit but then the cost implications outway actually rectifying the original problem and since you are not set on sorting out the original issue then creating more work at a bigger cost is not viable.
 
It can be done with a little control circuit but then the cost implications outway actually rectifying the original problem and since you are not set on sorting out the original issue then creating more work at a bigger cost is not viable.
One last kick at the can. I realized that my previous reply wouldn't work as intended. But if I were to power the single-pole switch by pigtailing off the red wire in Box 2, then I'd have direct power as long as the 3-way switch in Box 1 was in the "red" position. Since it's only a couple of steps away and we'll mostly just be using the LED fixture, this will be a good compromise.
 
So what you are saying is you're going to have to stop using one of the switches altogether (box1) to ensure power is retained on the red strapper which you can then tap off the fluorescent switch supply in box 2, this will cure your dilemma with having to have the LED's on at the same time which you won't need to now but you have basically converted it into a 1way system, the only drawback is if you accidently use the other switch you have to mess about to set it in the correct position to use the fluorescent...
Basically you have shifted the problem from box 2 to box 1 as you still require another switch to be in a certain position to allow your fluorescent to operate.
If this is acceptable to you then fine but it is crazy logic in my mind, you defeated the whole point of having 2 switch points to turn on the LED's from.

I think that all this time and effort trying to resolve this could have been better spent actually addressing the original wiring issue, is there absolutely no access to the wires in say a loft space or by lifting some boards to correct the original mistake?
 
If for some reason I have to open walls in the future, then I'll run the necessary cable to correct the two switch points. But pulling cable through the walls and ceiling is not something I'm up for. Floors are all concrete - no floor boards.
Maybe 'crazy logic' for someone who makes their living as an electrician, but for me it's just the easiest acceptable solution/compromise without making this into a project. I have plenty of other higher priority projects I'd rather spend my time on. Seeing as I was not an electrician, but nevertheless wired my entire house (except for the 'consumer unit') when I built 19 years ago and this is the only electrical issue I've had to deal with, I'd say I did alright. It's a minor inconvenience really, since we prefer to use the LED task lighting, would only use the fluorescent infrequently, and the switches are just a few feet apart anyway.

Cheers
 

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