Are Electricians Being De-Valued?

[imago]

Unless he's one of those guys who works off a ladder. We can't assume anything, good or bad

If he can take down a chimney stack from a ladder then he deserves a lot more than £800:00!

 

[shagbite]

The thing is, by making assumptions like that you're doing the same thing as the people complaining about electrician's rates. So lets look at the roofer's costs for that half day. Scaffolding the front of a house, @£300:00, a skip £120:00 because all waste has to be carried by a licensed carrier, the labourer more like £80:00 to be honest. So that's £400:00. Out of the remaining £400:00 he has to pay public liability which is almost double the usual because he's working above the roof line, tools like ladders have to be commercial grade, running a van, materials to cap the hole where the stack was. Then account for him loosing half his weekend.

Bitching between the trades is OK as a bit of banter, but when the green eye comes into play no one wins.

why criticise me for making assumptions on the scaffold and the labourer's wage, and then go and make your own assumptions? you also assume that there was a skip, when there wasn't. this is because the chimney was lovely old york stone, which the customer (a relative of mine) wanted to keep. i don't know about his public liability costs, but if they're double what i pay, then he'll be forking out about £130 a year. this equates to about 30 odd pence a day. even if it were five times my assumption, that's still less than £1.80 a day. you'll have to forgive me, but i'm going to make a couple more assumptions, based on the info' you've put in your reply - i'm guessing £20 for diesel and £30 for materials. factor in these expenses and the fella's walking away with over £56 an hour - in his hand. i'm all for someone making good money, but this bloke's on over £100 an hour. and before you say anything, i realise not all his jobs will pay this well. problem is, my relatives employed the first bloke that rocked up on their doorstep. i know loads of builders and roofers and i know, if they'd asked me, i could have got it done for half what they paid. you're right about the banter, i'm all for it. trouble is, you're also right about the envy - the most i've ever been paid for working a saturday is £38 an hour - before tax.

 

[imago]

I didn't citicise you for making assumptions, I was pointing out that there's no difference between you doing it and anyone else. Equally saying that you could have got the job done for much less so can anyone who knows a cheaper electrician.

In my opinion, and it's just that, and opinion, there's no problem with someone charging a higher rate for a job than it could be done for elsewhere. People can get quotes and compare them, or just go with whoever gives them the first price. It's their choice and if they don't want to, can't be bothered to, don't know how to, check out prices then they can pay the agreed price.

There is a problem with poor quality materials and bad workmanship. I have customers who don't get quotes from anyone, me included, they just ask for whatever to be done. I don't doubt for a minute that there are cheaper sparks available, but they don't look for them. Why? Because either they, or someone they know has had a bad experience in the past.

Again, I'm not having a go at you, just using the example you've given when I say that you aren't happy with what he charged but don't say he did a bad job. If he did a good job, and they were happy to pay for it, where's the problem?

 

[shagbite]

i guess the problem lies with the perceived injustice that arises when hourly rates are compared between trades. i'm lucky if i get £13 an hour these days, and i've got qualifications coming out of my eyeballs. call it jealousy, call it envy, but ultimately, it comes down to fairness. as electricians we have, arguably, the most responsibility on site, yet we're gradually becoming the least paid. with regards to the roofer; i guess his workmanship was acceptable but he left a hell of a mess when he'd left.

can i just say aswell, that i understand where you're coming from when you imply that it's hypocritical to whinge about other trade's rates and then, castigate our own customers for trying to get us as cheap as possible. but do you honestly believe that we get what we deserve - in comparison to other trades? somehow, our trade has gone from being a respectable, well paid job into an average paid job that everyone thinks they can do when they get in from work. after all, it's only 3 wires.

 

[imago]

I've no arguement with what you and others are saying about electrcian's rates, I agree completely. Rather than the other trades being paid too much, I think we should be concentrating on getting paid more. I never sell my services or promote my business based on price. I also never negotiate when I get the "Can you do it a bit cheaper?" question.

If we (electricians) look at the businesses and products which cost most they are all sold either on quality or exclusivity. Cars, computers, white goods, houses, groceries etc etc there are plenty of examples of items within a competative market which do the same things as their counterparts, but they are either marketed better, or are of a higher quality. The most recognised brand name in the world is Coke, yet there are plenty of equally refressing colas available. Why do they sell so much? Jaguar/Land Rover was on it's arse a few years back, then it made a recovery, not by making them cheaper, they actually increased the prices along with sorting out quality issues which didn't come anywhere near justifying the price increase. On and on the list goes.

The answer IMHO is to get the representative bodies to start banging the electrian's drum. ECA, ELECSA, NAPIT, NIC, JIB etc etc. Once the public's perception is changed to reflect the standards and training required to do the job properly people will accept the higher charges. I don't like marketing BS, but electrical work isn't 'sexy' enough. A guy I did a job for recently happily spent far more for his granite worktop than he did on the rewire, and he didn't bat an eyelid.

The electrical industry sat on it's collective behind and let other trades raise their profiles without challenge. Until it collectively realises that the time has come to play catch up it will be up to individual businesses and electricians to market themselves as best they can.

If brickies were on a grand a day electricians and plumbers would be perfectly happy. As long as they were on two.

 

[Welchyboy]

I cant beleive how long this has been goin on for

The bottom line is if your working on a wage for someone else you'll NEVER earn more than an average wage and will allways be at the mercy of supply and demand factors, and right now your up poo creek as demand is low and supply is high, that's the trade off that allows you to go home at 5 o'clock every night and completely forget about work till the next day
if you own your own business or work for your self then it's down to YOU how much money you can make depending on how you operate your business, how good you are, how shrewd you are and how much hard work you put in,

it just drains me when so many 'sparks' think that just because they done a few years at college it gives them a life long right to earn loads a cash, sorry the world dont work like that!


I don't think electricians are any more de-valued than anyone else,

And in a way things have not looked better for anybody skilled with electrics

But it seems It's allways someone else's fault, the poles, the economy, 5week
*wonders etc etc etc yawn!!!!

 

[shagbite]

you can't believe how long this has been going on for, yet here you are, adding to it.

 

[Guitarist]

Have to agree, you'll never make a great living by working for someone else.

 

[vjsmarwick]

The moment they start 6 week crash courses and handing out sparky tickets to labourers that have never done an once of training then our once great trade is doomed I don't know everything far from it.
I have been reading some of the questions asked on the site and I wonder if some even know the basics and can they read a wiring diagram.
I am first to admit when it comes to electronics I am lost but I recon I could wire almost anything armed with the drawing.
Common sense is a great thing and I know it's better to ask if your not sure but come on guys are we giving advice to fellow sparks or to the DIY guys we all curse for ? It's a pity there is no way we could confirm members at least have some qualifications.

 

[Guitarist]

It's normally easy to tell the DIY questions from the electricians. Personally, I have no problem giving certain advice to DIY'ers, but I draw the line when it is obvious that they are putting themselves and others at risk.