Brexit. We’re out!

[Paul L]

Depending on which side of the fence any of us sit on this subject i am sure we could make up an argument to suit our own agendas. The bottom line line is that we will all have to wait and see and just put up with whatever the consequences are good or bad.

Sure as heck we as individuals can't to anything about these details now, its up to our esteemed leaders to sort it.

 

[Midwest]

we already see that fuel has come down by about 10p/litre.

I thinks thats down to the Russkies & Saudi's squabbling over output.

Or is it 'cos there's not sport to go to watch, no ones going out clubbing or generally travelling. Mind there must be some travelling miles in search of toilet rolls.

 

[andyb]

Well... quite alot actually. Think about all the things that we currently have to pay a tariff on that don't originate from the EU... Pineapples for example ! EU tariff if 5.8% I think... but once we've left... 0%. There's a very very long list of EU tariffs that we won't need to pay if we revert to WTO rules.

And imagine if Barnier & co. stipulate a deal that harms Spanish or Italian exports to the UK... they'll be riots on the streets of Rome and Madrid !!!

You say 'Think about all the things that we currently have to pay a tariff on that don't originate from the EU' then give me:---------------------Pineapples.

How many pineapples do you buy in a year? I'm guessing a lot if you’re looking forward to the imaginary saving you're about to make.

 

[telectrix]

but it's not just pineapples. what about bananas. mostly from Carribean. bet there's loads of other stuff will be cheaper. not considering bog rolls atm., i expect them to peak at £2/wipe.

 

[Zerax]

You say 'Think about all the things that we currently have to pay a tariff on that don't originate from the EU' then give me:---------------------Pineapples.

About half of what we import comes from OUTSIDE of the EU (by value)... I just picked Pineapples as an example... I don't have time to list all the myriad of goods that will become cheaper under WTO rules.

 

[Midwest]

About half of what we import comes from OUTSIDE of the EU (by value)... I just picked Pineapples as an example... I don't have time to list all the myriad of goods that will become cheaper under WTO rules.

Toilet rolls?

 

[andyb]

but it's not just pineapples. what about bananas. mostly from Carribean. bet there's loads of other stuff will be cheaper. not considering bog rolls atm., i expect them to peak at £2/wipe.

Now bananas, do you know how much bananas cost? about 40p/lb in my local supermarket. I normally get a bunch every week and pay around 80p.

 

[Zerax]

Now bananas, do you know how much bananas cost? about 40p/lb in my local supermarket. I normally get a bunch every week and pay around 80p.

Blimey ! one minute he wants evidence that prices will go down... we give him that... and now's he's moaning about it ! (btw under EU rules, it's still illegal to sell bananas by the lb...)

 

[littlespark]

And imagine if Barnier & co. stipulate a deal that harms Spanish or Italian exports to the UK... they'll be riots on the streets of Rome and Madrid !!!

No riots. Especially not in Italy or Spain. Both in lockdown I believe.

how can you have a riot and be socially distancing?

 

[andyb]

Blimey ! one minute he wants evidence that prices will go down... we give him that... and now's he's moaning about it ! (btw under EU rules, it's still illegal to sell bananas by the lb...)

Fair enough, bananas 'may' go down a couple of pence. But I doubt it.
The point is if you asked me for a benefit of staying in and I gave you 'truffles will be cheaper' I'm sure you'd have some fun with that.
(btw under EU rules, it's never been illegal to sell bananas by the lb)

 

[telectrix]

Fair enough, bananas 'may' go down a couple of pence. But I doubt it.
The point is if you asked me for a benefit of staying in and I gave you 'truffles will be cheaper' I'm sure you'd have some fun with that.
(btw under EU rules, it's never been illegal to sell bananas by the lb)

btw under EU rules, it's never been illegal to sell bananas by the lb)

so why were grocers prosecuted by Trading Standards for selling stuff by the lb.?

 

[electric al]

btw under EU rules, it's never been illegal to sell bananas by the lb)

so why were grocers prosecuted by Trading Standards for selling stuff by the lb.?

Agree. There has been a few prosecutions for selling in imperial and not metric .The Metric martyrs ( a group of about 5 market traders that held out against metric measures ) lost the case in court too .

 

[andyb]

so why were grocers prosecuted by Trading Standards for selling stuff by the lb.?

Agree. There has been a few prosecutions for selling in imperial and not metric .The Metric martyrs ( a group of about 5 market traders that held out against metric measures ) lost the case in court too .

You can buy a pint of beer, a 10oz steak and a pound of bananas if the grocer wants to sell you it.
What you can't do is weigh in imperial, which is probaly what people were prosecuted for.

 

[electric al]

You can buy a pint of beer, a 10oz steak and a pound of bananas if the grocer wants to sell you it.
What you can't do is weigh in imperial, which is probaly what people were prosecuted for.

So hows the grocer weighing the 10 oz steak and the lb of bananas hes going to sell you ??

 

[littlespark]

So hows the grocer weighing the 10 oz steak and the lb of bananas hes going to sell you ??

Someone selling a 10 oz steak? That’ll be a butcher, then

all this talk of imperial v metric.
I think the law is that you can sell it how you like, but it has to have the metric equivalent on the label.
Ie, a pint of milk will have 568ml written in it, but we still call it a pint of milk.

 

[andyb]

So hows the grocer weighing the 10 oz steak and the lb of bananas hes going to sell you ??

I'll let Littlespark explain.

all this talk of imperial v metric.
I think the law is that you can sell it how you like, but it has to have the metric equivalent on the label.
Ie, a pint of milk will have 568ml written in it, but we still call it a pint of milk.

 

[electric al]

So next time I order a 12 inch pizza I'll look out to see if it says 305mm on the box

 

[littlespark]

So next time I order a 12 inch pizza I'll look out to see if it says 305mm on the box

Do you though? Or do they come “standard” or “large” size?
Actually, it’s been a long time since I bought a 7 inch single on vinyl.

The products uses imperial weights as names really now, such as “a quarter pounder”, or the aforementioned “pint”

You never know, maybe post-Brexit, we’ll go back to pounds and ounces, shillings and old pennies

 

[electric al]

Exit markers on motorways are 100 yards apart .Horse racing distances are still in furlongs and signposts are still in miles .we are told Tyson fury is six foot 9 .The truth is we have never truly embraced metrification

 

[Zerax]

(btw under EU rules, it's never been illegal to sell bananas by the lb)

errr... the Weights and Measures Act 1985 says otherwise... Weights and measures: the law - https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law
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Someone selling a 10 oz steak? That’ll be a butcher, then

all this talk of imperial v metric.
I think the law is that you can sell it how you like, but it has to have the metric equivalent on the label.
Ie, a pint of milk will have 568ml written in it, but we still call it a pint of milk.

Sort of... the Act says...
The only products you can sell in imperial measures are:

• draught beer or cider by pint
• milk in returnable containers by pint
• precious metals by troy ounce

You can display an imperial measurement alongside the metric measurement but it can’t stand out more than the metric measurement.

 

[andyb]

errr... the Weights and Measures Act 1985 says otherwise... Weights and measures: the law - https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law
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Sort of... the Act says...
The only products you can sell in imperial measures are:

• draught beer or cider by pint
• milk in returnable containers by pint
• precious metals by troy ounce

You can display an imperial measurement alongside the metric measurement but it can’t stand out more than the metric measurement.

You must weigh the produce using metric scales Zerax, I said that earlier. But it is perfectly legal to sell a pound of bananas if asked so long as as you use metric scales. ie 454 grams.

 

[Zerax]

You must weigh the produce using metric scales Zerax, I said that earlier. But it is perfectly legal to sell a pound of bananas if asked so long as as you use metric scales. ie 454 grams.

Errrr... No... you could get prosecuted. You must sell 454 grams of bananas that happens to be 1 pound. The act is very clear on this. There are only a few explicit exceptions.

So..... you could put up a sign on your fruit and veg stall saying:

Ripe Bananas for sale ! 40p for 454g (1 pound).... Legal
Ripe Bananas for sale ! 40p for 1 pound (454g).... Illegal
(I've used the same metric scales both times)

 

[andyb]

Errrr... No... you could get prosecuted. You must sell 454 grams of bananas that happens to be 1 pound. The act is very clear on this. There are only a few explicit exceptions.

So..... you could put up a sign on your fruit and veg stall saying:

Ripe Bananas for sale ! 40p for 454g (1 pound).... Legal
Ripe Bananas for sale ! 40p for 1 pound (454g).... Illegal
(I've used the same metric scales both times)

I think you're over thinking this Zerax, if I ask a market trader for 1lb of bananas and I'm sold 1 lb of bananas then no law has been broken as long as they were weighed on metric scales.
It's really not important to me.

 

[Midwest]

I like bananas.

 

[littlespark]

I like bananas.

@Midwest contribution, and only 3 words.
But now our bananas can be as bendy as we like. No EU rules on that.... Yeeeah! ???

 

[Darkwood]

Well as ever it’s down to the final agreement we sign with the EU. If we exit without a deal and on full WTO terms then there will be tariffs on our food imports, for example 21% on tomatoes. Factor in the extra transport costs i.e. customs clearance and delays at Dover then it’s clear, to me at least that prices will rise.

This s the worst-case scenario I think, and I still feel (possible naively) that a decent settlement will be agreed.

Do you have any evidence that prices will reduce?

I never said they would as a whole but here is the issue which is seldom ever thought about, even under wto rules with the EU we can arrange low tariff deals, free trade deals with the rest of the world and undercut the EU substantially, we were unable to do so as part of the block, the EU nations are not the only producers of most of the imports we enjoy, this is why it is unlikely we would ever get to a position of going WTO, the EU simply could not compete when we don't have to follow single market rules, they no longer are in any position to call the shots and that is more than clear by the u-turn in there tone if you can forgive the odd diplomats hot air comments for which the mainstream media love to hang on. The simple fact is we could have a Canada or Australia style deal which they have over 95% access to the single market without been tied down by the EU, we the UK trade 10x that of Canada so how is it they 'claim' we can't, it's just all scaremongering negotiation strategy from the EU but by their own admittance they are no longer holding any cards here.
Ps - I would need to check what tariff changes would apply if we went wto but from memory the majority are less than 2% which would normally be soaked up by industry to ensure sales are maintained, there are the odd extortionate examples out there but we just import from elsewhere.

 

[Zerax]

The EU are very very worried that a successful, thriving UK outside of the EU 'club' will only result in more countries leaving... and it won't be the countries that are net beneficiaries ! The 'EU project' will have to change to survive. Countries that took the Euro are in for a very rough time !

I suspect we'll see the existing group of 27 fragment into smaller groups, with each group being far more homogenous than the current single group. Germany may be on it's own, reverting to the Deutschmark.

But a weak or collapsing EU is not in the interests of the UK... we want prosperous trading partners !

 

[pirate]

We already buy lots of stuff from non EU countries...however, I refuse to buy green beans from Zambia as the carbon footprint is ridiculous.
The big supermarkets have spread the myth that the british housewife/husband demands that all fruits and vegetables are available 355 days a year (and 366 in leap years) but this is just wrong...we used to look forward to the quality produce that appeared in-store at certain times of the year, for example, here in Scotland we eagerly awaited the Ayrshire potatoes, the Clyde Valley tomatoes or Carse of Gowrie raspberries and strawberries etc but now we are proffered all manner of such from Spain and Morocco and many other places well outside the EU...and why would you give M&S £9.99 of your heard-earned for 2 tiny bream farmed in Egypt?
Time we supported our local producers, particularly our fisherman who have had to send all their produce, specifically shellfish, to the continent where they are willing to pay more than we are here in UK.
As always, the market will find its own level...

 

[littlespark]

Shellfish don’t matter to me. You can export the lot as far as I’m concerned....
New Zealand lamb? No thanks. Scotch lamb will do me.
nothing happening on the Brexit trade front until corona “gets sorted”

 

[Darkwood]

The UK is quite unique as it was the second largest contributor and also had the 5th largest economy now slipped to 6th in the world, in reflection the UK leaving is equivalent to that of 18 of the poorer EU nations in economical value to the EU, it is highly unlikely that this would create a domino effect simply because most of the EU nations will not be in any foreseeable position to do so, only France and Germany could theoretically make a success or those not tied so tightly into the EU, if either France or Germany did leave then the EU seizes to exist in it's current form.

Many people fail to recognise the very dire financial position the EU are in, a trillion Euro bonds buy up which prevented the Euro collapsing with the financial crash did not stimulate the EU economy like it was supposed to and now that tap has been turned off we see the EU going through economical slow down we went through at the beginning, the only difference is we have benefitted the UKs financial situation and are now able to inject it back into the system, the EU however has crippled itself and has no way of recouping the bonds buy out, Corona virus on top of this will only see more bonds bought up and we are not far off the Euro collapsing, this will destroy many EU economies and we also will feel the knock on effect but been external to the Euro and EU will act as a cushion effect....

Unless the EU drastically changes its destination and goes into a state of long term austerity to counter the inevitable, it is blindly walking into a disaster that will ripple around the world.

 

[pirate]

OOOO! littlespark!
it's not just what you like, it's about a whole food culture!
I love shellfish, I love lamb...and I simply will NOT buy NZ lamb, only Scottish or other UK lamb. However, you are indeed correct that everything is up in the air currently...
went to Tesco today...no eggs, virtually no tinned soup or other tinned goods, and of course no loo roll or kitchen roll...and, surprisingly to me, no milk.
However, plenty of bread...
The beer aisle was almost empty and, worst of all, I had to resort to buying an inferior gin!
The wine box shelf was empty too, apart from the Liebfraumilch, which shows that my fellow shoppers are very discerning!
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Just had a chat with a car dealer friend...it seems that not everyone is suffering just now as he has bought in a ferrari at £2.5M which the seller paid £4M for two years ago...reason for sale?
Not enough room in his garage for this one and his other 8 ferraris...
However, he still needs loo roll...
which isn't a problem as he owns the factory!

 

[ipf]

I like bananas.

Me too. But if you but a pound of 'em you're probably talking about chopping one of 'em up.
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We already buy lots of stuff from non EU countries...however, I refuse to buy green beans from Zambia as the carbon footprint is ridiculous.
The big supermarkets have spread the myth that the british housewife/husband demands that all fruits and vegetables are available 355 days a year (and 366 in leap years) but this is just wrong...we used to look forward to the quality produce that appeared in-store at certain times of the year, for example, here in Scotland we eagerly awaited the Ayrshire potatoes, the Clyde Valley tomatoes or Carse of Gowrie raspberries and strawberries etc but now we are proffered all manner of such from Spain and Morocco and many other places well outside the EU...and why would you give M&S £9.99 of your heard-earned for 2 tiny bream farmed in Egypt?
Time we supported our local producers, particularly our fisherman who have had to send all their produce, specifically shellfish, to the continent where they are willing to pay more than we are here in UK.
As always, the market will find its own level...

The snails 'll be on their way shortly.....export the bleeders to France, I say.

 

[Zerax]

The big supermarkets have spread the myth that the british housewife/husband demands that all fruits and vegetables are available 355 days a year (and 366 in leap years) but this is just wrong...

I think this is a generational thing... snowflake millennials are very used to, and now expect all the variety of fruit and veg all year.... but older people like us don't.

One of the craziest things I've seen was in the middle of July... a bag containing parsnips, suedes and carrots... marked up as "seasonal vegetables". Youngsters just don't understand how it all works.

And of course now... if we stop importing fruit & veg from some far off land... all the remainiacs will be banging on about it !

 

[FatAlan]

Interested to know how the brexiteers on here think things are going? Are the current issues temporary, are we now on a steady upward slope to the promised land?

 

[pirate]

The first thing I have encountered is an email from my Portuguese wine supplier. He tells me the favourite red I bought for about £4/bottle delivered to my door, and which costs about £9 in Tesco etc, will now cost me almost £8/bottle due to excise duty imposed when it is imported to UK...
I also see that some fishermen are getting 2p a kilo for landed fish, and some Scottish shellfish exporters have stocks rotting in the docks...
so far, not good

 

[Spoon]

Interested to know how the brexiteers on here think things are going? Are the current issues temporary, are we now on a steady upward slope to the promised land?

Are you saying the current state of the British economy is down to Bretix?

 

[DPG]

Interested to know how the brexiteers on here think things are going? Are the current issues temporary, are we now on a steady upward slope to the promised land?

It's difficult to say really bearing in mind the state of the world currently

 

[FatAlan]

Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the import / export paperwork streamlined and whether
businesses will be able to absorb the increased costs. I suspect a lot will be passed on to the consumer.

 

[DPG]

Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the import / export paperwork streamlined and whether
businesses will be able to absorb the increased costs. I suspect a lot will be passed on to the consumer.

Hopefully things won't take long to get sorted. Some people will always try and put a bad spin on things whatever the government do - just look at some of the ridiculous things some people are saying re Covid.

 

[andyb]

Hopefully things won't take long to get sorted. Some people will always try and put a bad spin on things whatever the government do - just look at some of the ridiculous things some people are saying re Covid.

This needs no spin, it's bad. Things will slowly improve but they will never get back to how they were, that's obvious.