Brexit. We’re out!

[telectrix]

Fair enough, bananas 'may' go down a couple of pence. But I doubt it.
The point is if you asked me for a benefit of staying in and I gave you 'truffles will be cheaper' I'm sure you'd have some fun with that.
(btw under EU rules, it's never been illegal to sell bananas by the lb)

btw under EU rules, it's never been illegal to sell bananas by the lb)

so why were grocers prosecuted by Trading Standards for selling stuff by the lb.?

 

[electric al]

btw under EU rules, it's never been illegal to sell bananas by the lb)

so why were grocers prosecuted by Trading Standards for selling stuff by the lb.?

Agree. There has been a few prosecutions for selling in imperial and not metric .The Metric martyrs ( a group of about 5 market traders that held out against metric measures ) lost the case in court too .

 

[andyb]

so why were grocers prosecuted by Trading Standards for selling stuff by the lb.?

Agree. There has been a few prosecutions for selling in imperial and not metric .The Metric martyrs ( a group of about 5 market traders that held out against metric measures ) lost the case in court too .

You can buy a pint of beer, a 10oz steak and a pound of bananas if the grocer wants to sell you it.
What you can't do is weigh in imperial, which is probaly what people were prosecuted for.

 

[electric al]

You can buy a pint of beer, a 10oz steak and a pound of bananas if the grocer wants to sell you it.
What you can't do is weigh in imperial, which is probaly what people were prosecuted for.

So hows the grocer weighing the 10 oz steak and the lb of bananas hes going to sell you ??

 

[littlespark]

So hows the grocer weighing the 10 oz steak and the lb of bananas hes going to sell you ??

Someone selling a 10 oz steak? That’ll be a butcher, then

all this talk of imperial v metric.
I think the law is that you can sell it how you like, but it has to have the metric equivalent on the label.
Ie, a pint of milk will have 568ml written in it, but we still call it a pint of milk.

 

[andyb]

So hows the grocer weighing the 10 oz steak and the lb of bananas hes going to sell you ??

I'll let Littlespark explain.

all this talk of imperial v metric.
I think the law is that you can sell it how you like, but it has to have the metric equivalent on the label.
Ie, a pint of milk will have 568ml written in it, but we still call it a pint of milk.

 

[electric al]

So next time I order a 12 inch pizza I'll look out to see if it says 305mm on the box

 

[littlespark]

So next time I order a 12 inch pizza I'll look out to see if it says 305mm on the box

Do you though? Or do they come “standard” or “large” size?
Actually, it’s been a long time since I bought a 7 inch single on vinyl.

The products uses imperial weights as names really now, such as “a quarter pounder”, or the aforementioned “pint”

You never know, maybe post-Brexit, we’ll go back to pounds and ounces, shillings and old pennies

 

[electric al]

Exit markers on motorways are 100 yards apart .Horse racing distances are still in furlongs and signposts are still in miles .we are told Tyson fury is six foot 9 .The truth is we have never truly embraced metrification

 

[Zerax]

(btw under EU rules, it's never been illegal to sell bananas by the lb)

errr... the Weights and Measures Act 1985 says otherwise... Weights and measures: the law - https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law
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Someone selling a 10 oz steak? That’ll be a butcher, then

all this talk of imperial v metric.
I think the law is that you can sell it how you like, but it has to have the metric equivalent on the label.
Ie, a pint of milk will have 568ml written in it, but we still call it a pint of milk.

Sort of... the Act says...
The only products you can sell in imperial measures are:

• draught beer or cider by pint
• milk in returnable containers by pint
• precious metals by troy ounce

You can display an imperial measurement alongside the metric measurement but it can’t stand out more than the metric measurement.

 

[andyb]

errr... the Weights and Measures Act 1985 says otherwise... Weights and measures: the law - https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law
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Sort of... the Act says...
The only products you can sell in imperial measures are:

• draught beer or cider by pint
• milk in returnable containers by pint
• precious metals by troy ounce

You can display an imperial measurement alongside the metric measurement but it can’t stand out more than the metric measurement.

You must weigh the produce using metric scales Zerax, I said that earlier. But it is perfectly legal to sell a pound of bananas if asked so long as as you use metric scales. ie 454 grams.

 

[Zerax]

You must weigh the produce using metric scales Zerax, I said that earlier. But it is perfectly legal to sell a pound of bananas if asked so long as as you use metric scales. ie 454 grams.

Errrr... No... you could get prosecuted. You must sell 454 grams of bananas that happens to be 1 pound. The act is very clear on this. There are only a few explicit exceptions.

So..... you could put up a sign on your fruit and veg stall saying:

Ripe Bananas for sale ! 40p for 454g (1 pound).... Legal
Ripe Bananas for sale ! 40p for 1 pound (454g).... Illegal
(I've used the same metric scales both times)

 

[andyb]

Errrr... No... you could get prosecuted. You must sell 454 grams of bananas that happens to be 1 pound. The act is very clear on this. There are only a few explicit exceptions.

So..... you could put up a sign on your fruit and veg stall saying:

Ripe Bananas for sale ! 40p for 454g (1 pound).... Legal
Ripe Bananas for sale ! 40p for 1 pound (454g).... Illegal
(I've used the same metric scales both times)

I think you're over thinking this Zerax, if I ask a market trader for 1lb of bananas and I'm sold 1 lb of bananas then no law has been broken as long as they were weighed on metric scales.
It's really not important to me.

 

[Midwest]

I like bananas.

 

[littlespark]

I like bananas.

@Midwest contribution, and only 3 words.
But now our bananas can be as bendy as we like. No EU rules on that.... Yeeeah! ???

 

[Darkwood]

Well as ever it’s down to the final agreement we sign with the EU. If we exit without a deal and on full WTO terms then there will be tariffs on our food imports, for example 21% on tomatoes. Factor in the extra transport costs i.e. customs clearance and delays at Dover then it’s clear, to me at least that prices will rise.

This s the worst-case scenario I think, and I still feel (possible naively) that a decent settlement will be agreed.

Do you have any evidence that prices will reduce?

I never said they would as a whole but here is the issue which is seldom ever thought about, even under wto rules with the EU we can arrange low tariff deals, free trade deals with the rest of the world and undercut the EU substantially, we were unable to do so as part of the block, the EU nations are not the only producers of most of the imports we enjoy, this is why it is unlikely we would ever get to a position of going WTO, the EU simply could not compete when we don't have to follow single market rules, they no longer are in any position to call the shots and that is more than clear by the u-turn in there tone if you can forgive the odd diplomats hot air comments for which the mainstream media love to hang on. The simple fact is we could have a Canada or Australia style deal which they have over 95% access to the single market without been tied down by the EU, we the UK trade 10x that of Canada so how is it they 'claim' we can't, it's just all scaremongering negotiation strategy from the EU but by their own admittance they are no longer holding any cards here.
Ps - I would need to check what tariff changes would apply if we went wto but from memory the majority are less than 2% which would normally be soaked up by industry to ensure sales are maintained, there are the odd extortionate examples out there but we just import from elsewhere.

 

[Zerax]

The EU are very very worried that a successful, thriving UK outside of the EU 'club' will only result in more countries leaving... and it won't be the countries that are net beneficiaries ! The 'EU project' will have to change to survive. Countries that took the Euro are in for a very rough time !

I suspect we'll see the existing group of 27 fragment into smaller groups, with each group being far more homogenous than the current single group. Germany may be on it's own, reverting to the Deutschmark.

But a weak or collapsing EU is not in the interests of the UK... we want prosperous trading partners !

 

[pirate]

We already buy lots of stuff from non EU countries...however, I refuse to buy green beans from Zambia as the carbon footprint is ridiculous.
The big supermarkets have spread the myth that the british housewife/husband demands that all fruits and vegetables are available 355 days a year (and 366 in leap years) but this is just wrong...we used to look forward to the quality produce that appeared in-store at certain times of the year, for example, here in Scotland we eagerly awaited the Ayrshire potatoes, the Clyde Valley tomatoes or Carse of Gowrie raspberries and strawberries etc but now we are proffered all manner of such from Spain and Morocco and many other places well outside the EU...and why would you give M&S £9.99 of your heard-earned for 2 tiny bream farmed in Egypt?
Time we supported our local producers, particularly our fisherman who have had to send all their produce, specifically shellfish, to the continent where they are willing to pay more than we are here in UK.
As always, the market will find its own level...

 

[littlespark]

Shellfish don’t matter to me. You can export the lot as far as I’m concerned....
New Zealand lamb? No thanks. Scotch lamb will do me.
nothing happening on the Brexit trade front until corona “gets sorted”

 

[Darkwood]

The UK is quite unique as it was the second largest contributor and also had the 5th largest economy now slipped to 6th in the world, in reflection the UK leaving is equivalent to that of 18 of the poorer EU nations in economical value to the EU, it is highly unlikely that this would create a domino effect simply because most of the EU nations will not be in any foreseeable position to do so, only France and Germany could theoretically make a success or those not tied so tightly into the EU, if either France or Germany did leave then the EU seizes to exist in it's current form.

Many people fail to recognise the very dire financial position the EU are in, a trillion Euro bonds buy up which prevented the Euro collapsing with the financial crash did not stimulate the EU economy like it was supposed to and now that tap has been turned off we see the EU going through economical slow down we went through at the beginning, the only difference is we have benefitted the UKs financial situation and are now able to inject it back into the system, the EU however has crippled itself and has no way of recouping the bonds buy out, Corona virus on top of this will only see more bonds bought up and we are not far off the Euro collapsing, this will destroy many EU economies and we also will feel the knock on effect but been external to the Euro and EU will act as a cushion effect....

Unless the EU drastically changes its destination and goes into a state of long term austerity to counter the inevitable, it is blindly walking into a disaster that will ripple around the world.

 

[pirate]

OOOO! littlespark!
it's not just what you like, it's about a whole food culture!
I love shellfish, I love lamb...and I simply will NOT buy NZ lamb, only Scottish or other UK lamb. However, you are indeed correct that everything is up in the air currently...
went to Tesco today...no eggs, virtually no tinned soup or other tinned goods, and of course no loo roll or kitchen roll...and, surprisingly to me, no milk.
However, plenty of bread...
The beer aisle was almost empty and, worst of all, I had to resort to buying an inferior gin!
The wine box shelf was empty too, apart from the Liebfraumilch, which shows that my fellow shoppers are very discerning!
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Just had a chat with a car dealer friend...it seems that not everyone is suffering just now as he has bought in a ferrari at £2.5M which the seller paid £4M for two years ago...reason for sale?
Not enough room in his garage for this one and his other 8 ferraris...
However, he still needs loo roll...
which isn't a problem as he owns the factory!

 

[ipf]

I like bananas.

Me too. But if you but a pound of 'em you're probably talking about chopping one of 'em up.
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We already buy lots of stuff from non EU countries...however, I refuse to buy green beans from Zambia as the carbon footprint is ridiculous.
The big supermarkets have spread the myth that the british housewife/husband demands that all fruits and vegetables are available 355 days a year (and 366 in leap years) but this is just wrong...we used to look forward to the quality produce that appeared in-store at certain times of the year, for example, here in Scotland we eagerly awaited the Ayrshire potatoes, the Clyde Valley tomatoes or Carse of Gowrie raspberries and strawberries etc but now we are proffered all manner of such from Spain and Morocco and many other places well outside the EU...and why would you give M&S £9.99 of your heard-earned for 2 tiny bream farmed in Egypt?
Time we supported our local producers, particularly our fisherman who have had to send all their produce, specifically shellfish, to the continent where they are willing to pay more than we are here in UK.
As always, the market will find its own level...

The snails 'll be on their way shortly.....export the bleeders to France, I say.

 

[Zerax]

The big supermarkets have spread the myth that the british housewife/husband demands that all fruits and vegetables are available 355 days a year (and 366 in leap years) but this is just wrong...

I think this is a generational thing... snowflake millennials are very used to, and now expect all the variety of fruit and veg all year.... but older people like us don't.

One of the craziest things I've seen was in the middle of July... a bag containing parsnips, suedes and carrots... marked up as "seasonal vegetables". Youngsters just don't understand how it all works.

And of course now... if we stop importing fruit & veg from some far off land... all the remainiacs will be banging on about it !

 

[FatAlan]

Interested to know how the brexiteers on here think things are going? Are the current issues temporary, are we now on a steady upward slope to the promised land?

 

[pirate]

The first thing I have encountered is an email from my Portuguese wine supplier. He tells me the favourite red I bought for about £4/bottle delivered to my door, and which costs about £9 in Tesco etc, will now cost me almost £8/bottle due to excise duty imposed when it is imported to UK...
I also see that some fishermen are getting 2p a kilo for landed fish, and some Scottish shellfish exporters have stocks rotting in the docks...
so far, not good

 

[Spoon]

Interested to know how the brexiteers on here think things are going? Are the current issues temporary, are we now on a steady upward slope to the promised land?

Are you saying the current state of the British economy is down to Bretix?

 

[DPG]

Interested to know how the brexiteers on here think things are going? Are the current issues temporary, are we now on a steady upward slope to the promised land?

It's difficult to say really bearing in mind the state of the world currently

 

[FatAlan]

Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the import / export paperwork streamlined and whether
businesses will be able to absorb the increased costs. I suspect a lot will be passed on to the consumer.

 

[DPG]

Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the import / export paperwork streamlined and whether
businesses will be able to absorb the increased costs. I suspect a lot will be passed on to the consumer.

Hopefully things won't take long to get sorted. Some people will always try and put a bad spin on things whatever the government do - just look at some of the ridiculous things some people are saying re Covid.

 

[andyb]

Hopefully things won't take long to get sorted. Some people will always try and put a bad spin on things whatever the government do - just look at some of the ridiculous things some people are saying re Covid.

This needs no spin, it's bad. Things will slowly improve but they will never get back to how they were, that's obvious.

 

[mattg4321]

It's not obvious at all. It was always very likely there would be significant disruption in the short term. Probably actually worse than what has happened in practice, however Covid has probably masked it to some extent.

It's likely that it will take a few years for everyone to get used to the new arrangements and any tweaks made and after that it's anyones guess as to whether it will be a good thing or bad thing. Much depends on your personal situation and subconscious bias.

 

[buzzlightyear]

my Portuguese wine supplier. He tells me the favourite red I bought for about £4/bottle delivered to my door, and which costs about £9 in Tesco etc, will now cost me almost £8/bottle due to excise duty imposed when it is imported to UK...

Well tell your supplier that you will now get your wine from Australia and see what he says, rather get me wine from them then the EU.

 

[Deleted account]

I voted leave knowing fulll well Europe would make us pay for the big betrayal. They have to be ruthless with us so as to discourage other countries leaving.

a price I was willing to pay thus my vote.

giving billions to Europe and thanking them when they give us billions back after they have skimmed off the top.

that’s why i voted leave.

 

[buzzlightyear]

giving billions to Europe and thanking them when they give us billions back after they have skimmed off the top.

I will be not long before a trade war,
And will stand there with a cannon.

 

[andyb]

I voted leave knowing fulll well Europe would make us pay for the big betrayal. They have to be ruthless with us so as to discourage other countries leaving.

a price I was willing to pay thus my vote.

giving billions to Europe and thanking them when they give us billions back after they have skimmed off the top.

that’s why i voted leave.

I'd be interested to know how they're being ruthless Pete, from what I can see they're just implementing the rules and regs that we agreed to in the brexit deal.
Most of the problems are caused on this side of the border by our own border control.

 

[FatAlan]

I voted leave but regret doing so. I accept that we’re out now and accept a long drawn out negotiation process to occur on top of what’s been agreed so far. Whether that beats what had had previously will be the €million question?

 

[andyb]

I will be not long before a trade war,
And will stand there with a cannon.

There's no need for a trade war Buzz. What's happening is just normal, it happens all over the world at borders where there is no free trade deal or similar. It was all explained during the referendum campaign, you rember project fear?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Pete, from what I can see they're just implementing the rules and regs that we agreed to in the brexit deal.
Most of the problems are caused on this side of the border by our own border control.

Wait till spring kicks in will not be having
Vegetables from aboard every farmer will start to dig for Britain. Eu subsidiary for farmers, not now who's going to pay them billions for us out of the EU, will be going around to EU country's with a flat cap.

 

[FatAlan]

Late apologies for reviving this thread again. I appreciate that there are strong views on both sides. Would be interesting to know if anyone has changed stance and why?
As I’ve said, I regretted voting for brexit quite soon after the vote. I won’t go into the reasons as they’ve been raked over adinfinitum already on here ?

 

[DPG]

Late apologies for reviving this thread again. I appreciate that there are strong views on both sides. Would be interesting to know if anyone has changed stance and why?
As I’ve said, I regretted voting for brexit quite soon after the vote. I won’t go into the reasons as they’ve been raked over adinfinitum already on here ?

I voted leave and don't regret it. Having said that I wish we had never had a referendum, because of the hassle of has caused.

I would still prefer to leave, but there were too many people stopping it going smoothly.

 

[FatAlan]

Wait till spring kicks in will not be having
Vegetables from aboard every farmer will start to dig for Britain. Eu subsidiary for farmers, not now who's going to pay them billions for us out of the EU, will be going around to EU country's with a flat cap.

Agree Buzz. This country needs to be more self-sufficient on food production. What I see happening though is that farms will start going bust and they’ll be bought up cheap by the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg and his disaster capitalists then who knows what will happen. Ideally, I’d like to see more locally produced food sold locally. Whether we can afford it, that will be the key.

 

[andyb]

Agree Buzz. This country needs to be more self-sufficient on food production. What I see happening though is that farms will start going bust and they’ll be bought up cheap by the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg and his disaster capitalists then who knows what will happen. Ideally, I’d like to see more locally produced food sold locally. Whether we can afford it, that will be the key.

We probably could be self sufficient with food. It'll have to be a pretty bland diet though and probably vegetarian.

 

[SparkyChick]

I believe a big problem with food in this country is the supply chain. Too long with too many people wanting their cut, but there is also the issue of supermarkets screwing over our view of what things really cost as things like fruit, veg and milk are often used as loss leaders as they are the things nearly everyone needs. This has distorted our view of what an acceptable price is for things somewhat.

Those two things make it hard for the producers to make money and it's unacceptable. It's always been unacceptable, but as with many other things (like the loss of the small local specialityshops - I'm thinking hardware, computers, haberdashery etc. etc.) smaller stores have been priced out of existence because they don't have the purchasing power to screw their suppliers into the ground.

We should tell them this with our money and we should all purchase from local suppliers.

As for our diet being bland and probably vegetarian... we have some great food and if it was more economically viable for producers I suspect there would be a lot more, but it's not for numerous reasons (some of which I've outlined above).

It's a common problem in this country. A lot of peoples views about what constitutes a reasonable price is seriously distorted, again partly due to the reasons I've outlined above, and as a consequence they aren't prepared to pay properly for things.

 

[plugsandsparks]

If you go to Ireland the supermarkets are full of "Irish Beef / Lamb / bread / loads of stuff" marked very clearly on the packaging so you know you are buying local stuff.

I have seen Sheep, cows, chickens, deer,in the fields around me, i used to pick potatoes as a kid and grow tomatoes in a greenhouse.

I think we will be fine eating our own stuff.

We can get our wine from anywhere in the world. I am allergic to shellfish, so for me its all good.

 

[FatAlan]

We probably could be self sufficient with food. It'll have to be a pretty bland diet though and probably vegetarian.

Of course we still need imported exotic fruit from around the world. Will be interesting to see if we can produce the salad stuff grown in Europe at the moment, cheaper here than continuing to import. Heating and lighting greenhouses will be expensive. Re meat, apparently we export a hell of a lot. I only see British and Irish Beef in our shops now anyway. Would I eat more of it if it was cheaper... not sure I would.

 

[FatAlan]

If you go to Ireland the supermarkets are full of "Irish Beef / Lamb / bread / loads of stuff" marked very clearly on the packaging so you know you are buying local stuff.

I have seen Sheep, cows, chickens, deer,in the fields around me, i used to pick potatoes as a kid and grow tomatoes in a greenhouse.

I think we will be fine eating our own stuff.

We can get our wine from anywhere in the world. I am allergic to shellfish, so for me its all good.

I steer clear of the shellfish/filter feeders (not referring to plumbers I might add) due to a fear of food poisoning, I do eat fish but not loads of it due to the expense. ?

 

[baldelectrician]

Are you saying the current state of the British economy is down to Bretix?

No it is down to several reasons, mainly Covit 19 and incompetence

 

[westward10]

I don't give a flying ****.

 

[baldelectrician]

I voted leave knowing fulll well Europe would make us pay for the big betrayal. They have to be ruthless with us so as to discourage other countries leaving.

a price I was willing to pay thus my vote.

giving billions to Europe and thanking them when they give us billions back after they have skimmed off the top.

that’s why i voted leave.

This is a myth- Europe are not making up pay, it's all out fault

The EU is like a club (such as a cricket club / bowling club etc). when we were in the EU the UK had the benefits of the club.
Now we have left we are no longer in a position to benefit from the EU single market.

It is ironic that the UK costs of leaving the EU are now more than the sum total of all the membership fees we have paid since the 1970's

 

[baldelectrician]

Nissan production halted, this will also be the fault of the EU
The UK had years to employ enough staff and implement a functional software system to make the border crossings less hassle but didn't
Oh and the French are currently being 'lenient' in implementing the rules but will become more strict soon.

Nissan forced to shut UK production line owing to supply delays

Temporary shutdown at Sunderland plant caused by disruption to supply chain during pandemic

www.theguardian.com