Broken PEN?

[IQ Electrical]

Check out the story in the link below, it seems that what we're told is 'virtually impossible' with the DNO monitoring equipment has actually happened in Kielder, a broken PEN.

I tested 8 business units and the school there a few months back, it was all PME.

The DNO are refusing liability for the damaged appliances etc. I think 'duty of care' might crop up here!

Kielder Village residents facing huge bills after power surge - Bellingham News - Bellingham, Kielder & North Tyne - Northumberland - JournalLive

 

[truckster]

I like the way they are still investigating the cause but have been able to decide it's not their fault already. My wifes like that!

 

[Sparky Ninja]

and a good reference scenario for the introduction of section 444.

 

[aptsys]

It's not very rare at all. We had it happen at our last house. It only affected us though, so all the metalwork became live rather than high voltages occurring where the broken neutral affects multiple customers.

I thought this thread was going to be about a biro...

 

[IQ Electrical]

It's not very rare at all. We had it happen at our last house. It only affected us though, so all the metalwork became live rather than high voltages occurring where the broken neutral affects multiple customers.

I thought this thread was going to be about a biro...

Notice I put 'virtually impossible' in inverted commas!

I wouldn't post about anything as trivial as a broken biro, a damaged Montblanc maybe though!

 

[Knobhead]

A good few years ago the EMEB as it was then had to cough up for appliances in 3 streets in Nottingham. A contractor had damaged the outer serving of a aluminium waveform cable and over time the PEN had rotted and then burnt out. EMEB tried to claim from the contractor but had problems due to the fact the cable had been uncovered by the gas board, the water board, Diamond cable and Uncle Tom Cobbly. Nobody would admit liability so EMEB had to pay up. The section of cable was in the boards black museum at Woolaton.

If any of you get the chance to go to EmPower grab the chance. It’s worth it just for the museum alone. The electric meter section has some brilliant ways of stopping you meter going around. The 12” carving knife rammed through the front of one was my favourite.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Tony,
Have you got an address for the EMPower museum?
Sounds good.
I can't find anything on google.
Ta

 

[Engineer54]

It's not very rare at all. We had it happen at our last house. It only affected us though, so all the metalwork became live rather than high voltages occurring where the broken neutral affects multiple customers.

I thought this thread was going to be about a biro...

It's extremely Rare!!!

How come a DNO distribution PEN failure, affected your house only, and not to any of your neighbours downstream??

 

[Engineer54]

Check out the story in the link below, it seems that what we're told is 'virtually impossible' with the DNO monitoring equipment has actually happened in Kielder, a broken PEN.

I tested 8 business units and the school there a few months back, it was all PME.

The DNO are refusing liability for the damaged appliances etc. I think 'duty of care' might crop up here!

Kielder Village residents facing huge bills after power surge - Bellingham News - Bellingham, Kielder & North Tyne - Northumberland - JournalLive

We know absolutely nothing of what happened here from this news report. All were told, is that of a power surge, nothing about broken PENs ....And it would be PENs not a broken PEN, as the area covered is far too large, for a single broken PEN to have caused!!!

Is this an assumption, or do you have more information than that given in this news story??

 

[IQ Electrical]

We know absolutely nothing of what happened here from this news report. All were told, is that of a power surge, nothing about broken PENs ....And it would be PENs not a broken PEN, as the area covered is far too large, for a single broken PEN to have caused!!!

Is this an assumption, or do you have more information than that given in this news story??

All I have is a second hand story from a caretaker that a 'snapped cable' caused the damage.

The village is in the middle of nowhere and has many miles of overhead but that doesn't explain any PME failure.

I'll keep my ear to the ground and post any updates from the local Sunday paper.

 

[UKMeterman]

It looks like it is not the first time there have been incidents in the area Hexham Courant | News | News at a Glance | Tynedale snowed under is there some problem with the design of the 11KV substations?

 

[JD6400]

It's extremely Rare!!!

How come a DNO distribution PEN failure, affected your house only, and not to any of your neighbours downstream??

Engineer54 , It's not rare at all .
I have experienced it twice now and heard of it second hand another three times , the last was one in Wadsworth i believe and blow up a whole streets worth of TV's and that was told to me two weeks ago by a dno engineer that installs the voltage monitoring equipment which is used to detect the faults .

 

[Engineer54]

Engineer54 , It's not rare at all .
I have experienced it twice now and heard of it second hand another three times , the last was one in Wadsworth i believe and blow up a whole streets worth of TV's and that was told to me two weeks ago by a dno engineer that installs the voltage monitoring equipment which is used to detect the faults .

dpelectricalltd,

Catastrophic breaks in the DNO PEN conductors have to be a rarity by there very nature. Many instances are put down to breaks in pen conductors but in fact are not. I can't comment on your experiences, but i wouldn't take much credence in second and third hand occurrences.

If you think about it, the DNO guy that installs the protection monitoring equipment is actually saying that he hasn't set-up his protection relay very well, if this fault was allowed to continue long enough to take out all this equipment... Catastrophic breaks of this magnitude would have tripped that correctly set-up relay out almost instantaneously.

I have a good friend in the DNO who has worked his whole working life with the electricity board covering Essex, who is now an area manager and retiring end of this year. He has only known 3 such occurrences in all that time, and all were tripped out by the monitoring protection relays before any real harm or damage was done. He actually grins and shakes his head whenever this subject of broken PENs is brought up!!!

I'm not saying it can never happen, as obviously it can and does, but it sure isn't anywhere near being a common occurance...

 

[Engineer54]

It looks like it is not the first time there have been incidents in the area Hexham Courant | News | News at a Glance | Tynedale snowed under is there some problem with the design of the 11KV substations?

Certainly doesn't sound like a place you would particually want to live, does it!! lol!!!

 

[mechelec]

It's extremely Rare!!!

How come a DNO distribution PEN failure, affected your house only, and not to any of your neighbours downstream??

Hybrid/alpex type concentric service cable with aluminium centre phase conductor and copper or aluminium outer neutral/earth conductor (PEN) will cause only one property to be affected if the PEN breaks down. Not at all uncommon with aluminium PEN when the outer sheath is damaged and water penetrates and corrodes over time.
As said in previous post it would be interesting to know the full facts to this incident.
What monitoring equipment is installed on the DNO LV distribution system where you are that would detect a PEN conductor failure.
Where I am unless people ring in we have no idea what is going on on the LV system.
HV is different, if a pigeon farts on the OH line it shows at control.