Discuss BS 7671 Regulation 532.6 AFDD in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

dinger809

Regular EF Member
Messages
99
Location
Essex
Hi all,
I know there have probably been posts on this already, but I can’t find it.
The regulation above says “Where specified, Arc Fault Detection Devices shall be installed....”

Where is it specified? I’ve been looking in the book, on line and on here. Even speaking to NICEIC and board manufacturers, nobody seems to really have an answer when they should be fitted

What is the consensus on here? Or is there one?

I thank you all in advance
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,939
Location
Northampton
Hi all,
I know there have probably been posts on this already, but I can’t find it.
The regulation above says “Where specified, Arc Fault Detection Devices shall be installed....”

Where is it specified? I’ve been looking in the book, on line and on here. Even speaking to NICEIC and board manufacturers, nobody seems to really have an answer when they should be fitted

What is the consensus on here? Or is there one?

I thank you all in advance
On Site Guide page 45, BS7671 regulation 421.1.7 read and digest.
 
OP
dinger809

dinger809

Regular EF Member
Messages
99
Location
Essex

buzzlightyear

please let me back in to the prison cell.
Electrician's Arms
Messages
6,970
Location
star command
the wiring regs states it is recommend to fit them as addition against fire etc .they will be costly, will you be fitting spuds has well.
 
OP
dinger809

dinger809

Regular EF Member
Messages
99
Location
Essex
On Site Guide page 45, BS7671 regulation 421.1.7 read and digest.
Cheers Pete, the confusion comes where it says in 421.1.7 “if used”, so there is no compulsion to put them in. This is where a big debate begins
 
OP
dinger809

dinger809

Regular EF Member
Messages
99
Location
Essex
Buzz, you’re not kidding! £100 each. In a new install with 10 circuits that’s a grand just on AFDD’s alone. If someone wants a new board, do we HAVE to fit them. As above, the new rev is too ambiguous.
 

ackbarthestar

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Messages
2,083
Location
A Zoo near YOU
You should do nothing until it becomes imperative to fit them.
1. they cost far too much at the moment
2. It is only a recommendation
3. Generally only heavy loads generate arcs and sparks, applies mainly to industrial systems
4.. Many loose neutral connections are atributed to DNO faults AFDD only work on downstram faults
5. Wait till you can buy an AFDD, SPD, RCD and OCPD in one single pole sized unit at a price which correlates to the price of a RCBO
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,939
Location
Northampton
Thanks Buzz, I know what they are and what they do (I am an approved sparks) but I’m just trying to get a consensus on when they should be fitted in new installations. Six of us on a job last week and six opinions on what should be done
Don't want to but in but: AFDs
THhe use of AFDsis recommended as additional protection against fire in an A/C Final Circuit. Such protection is not offered by Circuit Breakers, fuse or RCDs as AFDDs are designed to detect low level hazardous arcing that Circuit Breakers, Fuses or RCDs are not designed to detect. AFDDs detect series and parallel arcs which, for instance, can occur within damaged cables an poor /loose connections.
AFDDsn may be provide as:
A) one single device complying with BS EN 60898-1 61009-1 or 600269
B) One single device BS EN 60898=1, 61009-1or 62423. incorporated in a protective device.
C)An AFDD add on module.
AFDDs shall be installed at the origin of the circuit to be protected.
Clear enough now is it.
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,939
Location
Northampton
Cheers Pete, the confusion comes where it says in 421.1.7 “if used”, so there is no compulsion to put them in. This is where a big debate begins
Read the OSG it explains things quite well
 
OP
dinger809

dinger809

Regular EF Member
Messages
99
Location
Essex
And and AFDD won’t detect a fault on a ring final circuit, only on an appliance attached to it, due to the nature of ring final circuits. So, what’s the point of fitting one to them.

Again, my question is, when they should be fitted, or even do they need to be?
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,939
Location
Northampton
And and AFDD won’t detect a fault on a ring final circuit, only on an appliance attached to it, due to the nature of ring final circuits. So, what’s the point of fitting one to them.

Again, my question is, when they should be fitted, or even do they need to be?
It's a RECOMMENDATION only, What does your Scam say? or are they as much in the dark as the folk that produce the Regulations?
 

Andy-1960

Electrician's Arms
Messages
510
Location
Wolverhampton
And and AFDD won’t detect a fault on a ring final circuit, only on an appliance attached to it, due to the nature of ring final circuits. So, what’s the point of fitting one to them.

Again, my question is, when they should be fitted, or even do they need to be?
Hager are working on one the will work on a RFC rated at 32A, however Schneider can only offer one that will only work on a radial with a max rating of 25A. So in the future you will need to check the spec of what is installed when doing a periodic as there does not appear to be any standardisation across manufacturers as yet.
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,939
Location
Northampton
Hager are working on one the will work on a RFC rated at 32A, however Schneider can only offer one that will only work on a radial with a max rating of 25A. So in the future you will need to check the spec of what is installed when doing a periodic as there does not appear to be any standardisation across manufacturers as yet.
There's a surprise.
 
D

Deleted member 26818

If you were considering installing AFDs in a domestic installation, you’d be looking at installing them on Shower or cooker circuits.
There may come a time where AFDs are required everywhere, but until that time, I’d limit their use.
 

Pete999

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Messages
22,939
Location
Northampton
Hager are working on one the will work on a RFC rated at 32A, however Schneider can only offer one that will only work on a radial with a max rating of 25A. So in the future you will need to check the spec of what is installed when doing a periodic as there does not appear to be any standardisation across manufacturers as yet.
There's a surprise. Not much thought given to this issue in my book, a knee jerk reaction by the IET.
 
OP
dinger809

dinger809

Regular EF Member
Messages
99
Location
Essex
I understand it’s a recommendation, but 532.6 says “shall be installed” which usually means “will be installed”

The helpline say, do a risk assessment when installing to explain why it hasn’t been fitted! I’ll just do that and as others have said, put it on the higher rated circuits for now and see what happens in amendment 1.
 
D

Deleted member 26818

I think it’ll be amendment 2 or 3 before it becomes mandatory.
 

Ian1981

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Messages
3,021
Location
North east
It says shall be installed because if you do elect to install one, then they shall be installed at the origin of the circuit.
It’s telling you were they are required to be
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPG

Baddegg

Still simmering Ken, not boiled yet buddy x
Electrician's Arms
Messages
1,384
Location
Portsmouth
it’s a recommendation, recommend it to the customer along with the cost.......then write in the cert recommend and declined....
 

Electrician Talk

Top