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dinger809

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Hi all, I had the following situation arise and was just wondering what others’ views were

Doing a new build, started November last year. Although done tray and basket, I’ve run some cables a short distance across ceilings using cables ties. I’ve used metal fixings, nailed in with a Spit gun, but used alternate metal and plastic cables ties, every 750mm, done purely to keep costs reasonable.

I’ve been told to replace all the plastic ties with metal, as it doesn’t comply with the regs. Even though it was designed last year.

CPS helpline says I’m more than complying. And reg 521.10.202 in 18th edition doesn’t say you can’t use plastic, just they can’t be sold means of support.

Just wondered what others think and if anyone has had similar experiences.

Thanks in advance
 
Apologies, I’ve fixed to is concrete, below the cables will be a mixture of gridded ceilings and plasterboard ceilings

Well ...... if the cables concerned are above the "gridded" ceiling, then I would say the building inspector is 100% correct.

If the cables concerned are above the plasterboard ceiling I would say the building inspector is a jobs worth........
 
If is I suspect, the job is running into the 1000’s of pounds, it’s probably easier to replace the ties as requested than it is to argue the point with the inspector.
Any issues he brings up as not complying will mean difficulty in getting the bill paid.
All for what £50 worth of steel ties?

What feels better, being right or being paid!!
 
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On several jobs over the past few years sparks have alternated metal and plastic ties on sections of cable tray. Only to be told to cut off all the plastic ties and replace with metal ties.
What you save initially you then lose in time having to go round replacing all the plastic ties.
Just do all metal in the first place
 
Hi @dinger809 i would say you’ve achieved compliance. If it was me I would get the building inspectors email and send him the wording of the regulation, your schemes view on things and also your own opinion on how you’ve satisfied the requirements. If you jump to his tune then IMO it makes you look incompetent to your client.....Even though you aren’t. Worth a try IMO.
 
If is I suspect, the job is running into the 1000’s of pounds, it’s probably easier to replace the ties as requested than it is to argue the point with the inspector.
Any issues he brings up as not complying will mean difficulty in getting the bill paid.
All for what £50 worth of steel ties?

What feels better, being right or being paid!!
Both . I agree with @Leesparkykent .
 
November last year would have required suitable support on an escape route, a somewhat tenuous comment as there would be little scope for an area not deemed an escape route hence the change in the 18th Ed.
 
17th or 18th, metal fixings at 1500 centres would surely be compliant in terms of supporting cables to prevent entanglement. Agree that it's worth challenging the Inspector, if he's reasonable and presented with evidence he'll likely agree and gain a better understanding of the requirements. Very possible that he has simply heard that 'plastic clips are now illegal'
 
I would say it depends what would happen in a fire, if the plastic clips would melt and the cable would be slack it might hang down enough to snag firefighters. If the cable is taught enough from other fixings and where it goes through walls etc, then it should be fine. But i agree about the arguing thing, unless you are doing a lot of work with the same inspector maybe it isn't worth it.
 
Hi all. Thanks for the replies. Should have added, the concrete slab is 3.6m above ffl. The cables are run around the edge of rooms, stabbing out to light fittings.

I’ve tried explaining the regs to the BI, but to no avail. Even the client thinks he’s just being bloody minded.

Unfortunately, I think we are all going to have a lot more of this and as with all regulation changes, our costs are going to increase.

On a bright note, it’s a one off job south of London, 50 miles from home. So I won’t have to deal with him again

Thanks again for the input
 
My understanding, is that the Regulations require us to prevent premature collapse of cables.
For many years now, I have been using metal ties about a meter apart, or every third tie.

I am not aware of there being a requirement for every fixing to be metal.
 
Is that all he’s got to worry about,looking @ some of the sparkies out there,they ought to have metal ties round their feet,stop them working ha ha
 
521.10.202 Wiring systems shall be supported such that they will not be liable to premature collapse in the event
of a fire.
NOTE 1: Wiring systems hanging across access or egress routes may hinder evacuation and firefighting activities.
NOTE 2: Cables installed in or on steel cable containment systems are deemed to meet the requirements of this regulation.
NOTE 3: This regulation precludes, for example, the use of non-metallic cable clips or cable ties as the sole means of support
where cables are clipped direct to exposed surfaces or suspended under cable tray, and the use of non-metallic cable
trunking as the sole means of support of the cables therein.
NOTE 4: Suitably spaced steel or copper clips, saddles or ties are examples that will meet the requirements of this regulation.
 

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