Do you not feel that the term Electrical Trainee is derogatory

[trev]

But would the register prove the competence of the electrician doing the work, or the company he's working for?

Does the Gas Safe register prove the competency of the heating bloke who just turned up on your doorstep?

 

[Hawkmoon]

This seems to have got a bit PC - IMO it shouldn't be about protecting the feelings of someone who genuinely believed they were clever enough to cram 3 or 4 years training into a few weeks; I think a homeowner has a right to know that the person they hired believing to be an electrician, the proprietor of the company with the signwritten van out the front, obtained all their qualifications in a matter of weeks and was previously working as a bank clerk or taxi driver.

Einstein worked as a bank clerk...

I think the issue here is not what they did before but the lack of what education/experience they need to do what they propose now - 5 weeks - a joke!!!

 

[Adam W]

Does the Gas Safe register prove the competency of the heating bloke who just turned up on your doorstep?

I don't know. Does it?
I think a lot of customers assume that if someone is 'allowed' to turn up on someone's doorstep to start tinkering with their gas, plumbing, electrics or whatever, that 'someone' (probably the government) had already deemed them competent to do so, in the same way if you register with a new doctor or dentist you shouldn't have to look them up on the internet to see if they're competent. The problem being you can register with a part p organisation and call yourself a fully qualified accredited domestic installer after 5 weeks training, or even just that someone else who works for the same company fulfilled the criteria of the part p organisation.

 

[Adam W]

Einstein worked as a bank clerk...

I think the issue here is not what they did before but the lack of what education/experience they need to do what they propose now - 5 weeks - a joke!!!

But did working as a bank clerk mean that Einstein made a good electrician?

 

[Guest111]

Adam the gas safe qualification is for the engineer not the company,each engineer must hold his own gas safe qualification,this takes us back to the argument for 1 register for all electricians instead of the mess we have now,it works for gas and would work for electrics,the only thing stopping it is the financial aspect.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Does the Gas Safe register prove the competency of the heating bloke who just turned up on your doorstep?

Trev, the gas safe system really does appear to address the fundamental issue. With gas safe not only does the business have to be registered but also every engineer who works on gas has to be registered and his registration has to be relevant for the appliance he is working on. For an engineer to get registration he/she has to pass the mandatory qualifications which have a very high pass rate (100%). e.g. If you are registered for Domestic boilers, you cannot legally work on commercial boilers. if you are registered for small piped gas you cannot work on large piped gas etc etc. There is no comparison with the electrical industry really. BTW I have just registered Plugs and Sparks with Gas safe and am currently going through my training and it really is quite refreshing. Having said all that if a gas engineer drops one, it still is down to the competence on the day but at least the rules are crystal clear. I heard on the radio someone locally being jailed for 2 months for a dodgy gas install, so I think you will find its more than a little more robust than the electrical trade. Also in my dealings with gas safe when registering they are very very professional and know their stuff. So far quite impressed

 

[NickD]

IMO it shouldn't be about protecting the feelings of someone who genuinely believed they were clever enough to cram 3 or 4 years training into a few weeks.

Perhaps not, but implicit in the Electrical Trainee term is the assumption that anyone doing the five weeks is trying to cram it all into that five weeks from the ground up, and does not have any pre-existing knowledge, experience or qualifications to bring to the show. In effect that tars everyone who takes the short course route with the same brush regardless of whether their previous existence was as a pastry chef or chief engineer at Rolls Royce.

 

[Adam W]

Pastry chef, chief engineer at Rolls Royce, IT technician, brain surgeon... None of which have any previous electrical experience relevant to wiring up buildings, the difference being I would expect the pastry chef to be the one to know their place and realise they can't cut corners with their training.

 

[NickD]

I would expect the pastry chef to be the one to know their place.

How very Downton Abbey

 

[Engineer54]

Also I think the 2-3 year to 5 week comparison is flawed. those of you did CG2330 on evening college courses only did one evening a week (4 hours) and at least 6 weeks you don't go. So 46 x 0.5 days = 23 days a year (4.6 weeks). So a 2 year course would be less than 10 weeks at college. Not such a big gap now is it.

Most apprentices will be going to college 1 day plus evening per week. Or, and i don't know if this still exists ''block release'' where the apprentice will do block term's at college....

Then you will need to add into the equation the experiences being gained under the patronage and watchful eye of a qualified electrician.

So in my book there is really no comparison, considering that on completion of that 3/4/5 year apprenticeship you will,( or should be) leaving with a core Lv 3 electrical qualification AM2 and hopefully NVQ Lv 3!! Not just an add on 17th edition, PAT qualification, and a worthless Part Pee qualification.

What's more, how anyone in their right mind, can accredit the 17th and PAT qualifications as being even remotely close to being Level 3 standard, is totally beyond my understanding!! But this lunacy results in these wannabe's having two level 3 qualifications under their belt, 5 weeks after they gave up the Tesco Shelf packing job!!

 

[uksparks]

What's more, how anyone in their right mind, can accredit the 17th and PAT qualifications as being even remotely close to being Level 3 standard, is totally beyond my understanding!!

Shocking isn't it, it's sub level 1

 

[NickD]

What's more, how anyone in their right mind, can accredit the 17th and PAT qualifications as being even remotely close to being Level 3 standard, is totally beyond my understanding!! But this lunacy results in these wannabe's having two level 3 qualifications under their belt, 5 weeks after they gave up the Tesco Shelf packing job!!

From postman to PAT, one might say.

 

[uksparks]

From postman to PAT, one might say.

That's a great one that is.

 

[Meggerman]

Most apprentices will be going to college 1 day plus evening per week. Or, and i don't know if this still exists ''block release'' where the apprentice will do block term's at college....

Then you will need to add into the equation the experiences being gained under the patronage and watchful eye of a qualified electrician.

So in my book there is really no comparison, considering that on completion of that 3/4/5 year apprenticeship you will,( or should be) leaving with a core Lv 3 electrical qualification AM2 and hopefully NVQ Lv 3!! Not just an add on 17th edition, PAT qualification, and a worthless Part Pee qualification.

What's more, how anyone in their right mind, can accredit the 17th and PAT qualifications as being even remotely close to being Level 3 standard, is totally beyond my understanding!! But this lunacy results in these wannabe's having two level 3 qualifications under their belt, 5 weeks after they gave up the Tesco Shelf packing job!!

I agree with you entirely. I was not referring to apprentices I was referring to evening class students not working in the industry. An apprenticeship is the best training you can have (with a good firm anyway).

 

[Chrisuk]

I agree with you entirely. I was not referring to apprentices I was referring to evening class students not working in the industry. An apprenticeship is the best training you can have (with a good firm anyway).

With the evening classes like I'm doing we are told that any time during the 2 levels we need to find employment and do our nvq3, they said it can take 6 months if we have the work ask the way up to a year, although someone in here said they did it in 4 months
Although I have heard a few ppl go l self employed when only having level 2 and 3 2365 : shocked

Ps I'm only doing evenings because I can not find a firm to take on a mature apprenticeship

 

[Badged01]

.....I'm only doing evenings because I can not find a firm to take on a mature apprenticeship

Unfortunately whilst 'mature' candidates have many benefits over 'younger' candidates the financial aspects of employing a 'young' apprentice always seem to win ....... money talks!

 

[Chrisuk]

Unfortunately whilst 'mature' candidates have many benefits over 'younger' candidates the financial aspects of employing a 'young' apprentice always seem to win ....... money talks!

College advisor cane in and said now it only costs the company £500 per year instead of £2500, I'd pay the£500 out my pocket and i still can't find a firm, do they actually get paid for taking a school lever?

 

[Badged01]

Yep, basically take someone on under 19 and the govt pays you money (£1500?) plus you pay the apprentice a low hr rate (£2.30?). Once you get above 19 the govt isnt interested and you have to pay the minimum wage hr rate (£6.30). And at the end of it all you dont have to keep the apprentice once the training is finished! Im not suggesting firms use it as cheap labour .......

 

[Meggerman]

Chris, That would be no different than people with 2330 l2 & l3 going self employed of which there are loads. 2365 is underpinning knowledge for 2357 NVQ3 whereas 2330 was for the 2356 NVQ3.

 

[Meggerman]

Yep, basically take someone on under 19 and the govt pays you money (£1500?) plus you pay the apprentice a low hr rate (£2.30?). Once you get above 19 the govt isnt interested and you have to pay the minimum wage hr rate (£6.30). And at the end of it all you dont have to keep the apprentice once the training is finished! Im not suggesting firms use it as cheap labour .......

Like the firms haven't figured that out

 

[Chrisuk]

Chris, That would be no different than people with 2330 l2 & l3 going self employed of which there are loads. 2365 is underpinning knowledge for 2357 NVQ3 whereas 2330 was for the 2356 NVQ3.

I only said what I said because the first thing my tutor told us and it's been hammered into us since is

At the end if level 3 2365 you will NOT be a qualified spark

Not until we do the nvq3 on site, putting work I'm that's staying in

I'd personally like to say I'm a qualified spark by the end, doing whatever it takes to make me one

 

[Marvo]

Okay, I'm back to find out if it was derogatory when I used the term Electrical Trainee. I don't have time to read 110 replies, can someone just give me the yes or no short answer please?

 

[Richard Burns]

The answer is YES or NO.

 

[Marvo]

The answer is YES or NO.

The jury's still out I assume

 

[Engineer54]

The term ''electrical trainee'' and/or ''17 Day Whizz Kid'' are what they are!! Under trained, under qualified, unskilled and inexperienced folk that have been given a meaningless name (Domestic Installer) because everyone and their dog, knows they ain't electricians. If that's classed as being derogatory, then so be it, but as far as i'm concerned, it's the truth, and not many are able to handle any real world truth's anymore!!

 

[Hawkmoon]

Derogatory = intending to belittle/disparaging/intentionally offensive (Collins dictionary)...

So if these definitions fit your use of 'Electrical Trainee' then - YES

If you just use the term as a handy short description (as eg an abbreviation) - NO


Mind you I would think most people on the receiving end of it think it is derogatory!

 

[NickD]

I suggest it would be a good idea for everyone (especially including the people who have done the short courses) to embrace and use the term Electrical Trainee, and then it loses its sting, same way the gay lobby "stole back" the term "queer" to the point where it became useless as an insult.

 

[pepparz]

I suggest it would be a good idea for everyone (especially including the people who have done the short courses) to embrace and use the term Electrical Trainee, and then it loses its sting, same way the gay lobby "stole back" the term "queer" to the point where it became useless as an insult.

Yes, it wouldn't do for anyone to have their feelings hurt, poor lambs.

 

[MDJ]

Is this still going on? Lets change it around to try to keep the peace and try to get along, what do you short course takers want us to call you? Let us know and hopefully we cab oblige and all agree on some peace on the forum.

 

[MDJ]

The term ''electrical trainee'' and/or ''17 Day Whizz Kid'' are what they are!! Under trained, under qualified, unskilled and inexperienced folk that have been given a meaningless name (Domestic Installer) because everyone and their dog, knows they ain't electricians. If that's classed as being derogatory, then so be it, but as far as i'm concerned, it's the truth, and not many are able to handle any real world truth's anymore!!

Don't hold back M8 lol