Discuss Domestic Installer Training in the Electrical Courses & Electrical NVQ's area at ElectriciansForums.net

Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
Hi guys
Anyone done the domestic installer course withe Electrical Courses 4 You?

I'm a self employed kitchen fitter looking to do the course. I'm only interested in what's required for my kitchens, not full rewire etc.
I fully understand that I will be very limited in knowledge gained by these courses, but i simply just want to limit myself to what's required for my kitchens. The biggest jobs that will occur is the consumer unit change and upgrading the earth bonding, I know there the most important.
With my knowledge being limited, should I survey a kitchen and think I could potentially hit a snag, I would book an electrician. One of my old electricians whom I'm friends with has offered to be a helpline and even bail me out if things go tits up.

I know these courses get slated for teaching slap dash cowboys that don't care about their quality of work or their customers. I'm not like that, I'm overly conscientious. This is one reason of wanting to do it myself, sparks I've used don't think like me and I've had enough. I dare say there are amazing sparkies out there but I've had no luck.
Reading about me and my work, do you guys think it's worth me doing?

The money I would spend I would get back in 12 months, so cost isn't an issue.
The course supplier is Electrical Courses For You.

Thanks for any help or beatings.
 

mattg4321

Electrician's Arms
Messages
694
Location
South East
Doing electrical work isn't a sideline in my opinion. I can't really think of anyone I've come across who does it (quite a few kitchen/bathroom fitters mostly) who I would have anywhere near a job of mine. It's simply too involved (if you want to do it properly) unless you're fully committed to it.

You also need to factor in the costs associated with scheme membership, test equipment and yearly calibration, regular training etc etc

I'd be looking for local recommendations for decent sparks to get in to work for you.
 
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Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
Cheers Matt

I get where your coming from. In my experience most of the kitchen electrics is the same and not had any issues. I'm confident I could do the work, actually have done on the odd occasion with sparkies permission, he'd then test and do a minor works.
Its always sockets and lights, sometimes new cooker circuit and that's about it. We've had the odd consumer unit fault nightmare, but I have a back up man for that
I'm paying between 7-10k on electrical fees annually so I'd get my money back quickly.
Food for thought tho.
 

Vortigern

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,766
Location
England
I would certainly look into our sponsors on here XS training/Trade skills for you. So you do domestic installer course then join a scheme as well. Why not indeed better than just doing without the relevant qualies. Do be careful to be sure that when you fork out the money the qualies you get will actually allow you to join a scheme. I suggest contacting a scheme such as NICEIC who the larger amount on here would recommend, and ask them what they need or look it up on line and see if that tallies with what your trainer is offering. As you have involved yourself and are active in the field it should be quite straight forward for you. Are you good at maths? If so it will be a doddle. The only other comment is that if you use an electrician instead of you doing it the liability for the work is not yours which for me is always a consideration. Have a look at this link for further info on what you need;
Morris Services - Getting Started - https://www.morrisservices.co.uk/gettingstarted.asp
 
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Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
Thanks everyone. My maths is fine so shouldn't be an issue.
I understand the frustration of you guys reading a common thread, I've read older posts but they didn't relate to me, it was all for people starting a new career not a practicing tradesman.
I will read the advice given and have a think.
 

Midwest

Electrician's Arms
Messages
11,174
Location
Oxfordshire
Stopped domestic sparking last year, but my work was mainly for one company doing bathroom & kitchen refurbishments.

I encountered a few problems, especially with the kitchen works, where the previous refurbishment had been done by DIY’ers or probably, and no offence, the kitchen installers.

I know of some other kitchen installers have followed your proposed route, and been successful. The company I did work for, have employed another sparks. They also choose to use other trades, like plasterers, painters etc.

You’ll have to factor additional costs, like specific insurance (in relation to electrics), being in a scheme (for notifiable work, England & Wales), test equipment, additional training, etc.

Will it make business sense?
 
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Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
Midwest, when you say problems do you mean issues that you couldn't resolve due to limited training?
Financial side of things it would probably benefit me as I'm not paying 7-10k a year on sparky fees. I understand that I may need an extra couple of days to complete my installation if I do the electrics.
Being able to do it all myself and not fight for space when another guy, sometimes 2, are in the kitchen with is another factor.
 

remedial

Trainee Access
Messages
69
Location
wales
I'm surprised you haven't just come to an arrangement with a local electrician whereby you chase in the cables and he comes along later to connect it up, test and sign off. That sort of thing is undoubtedly frowned upon by many but in the real world it happens a lot and is a reasonable compromise for all involved
 
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Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
To be fair I've not asked. I would imagine the sparky wont be happy as he's losing money and having to go elsewhere to make up for it.
 

Midwest

Electrician's Arms
Messages
11,174
Location
Oxfordshire
Midwest, when you say problems do you mean issues that you couldn't resolve due to limited training?
Cheeky Sod.

No I mean I had extra work to do, to correct the balls up done by the 'others' previously mentioned. Which was why sometimes I did kitchen refurbs on day rate; sometimes it was only after the old units were removed, to reveal what had to be done/corrected.

If some of your reasoning, is because trades are falling over themselves, then you are not planning things properly. I was given dates, as to when I would have the venue to myself, to do my work. Same as the other trades.
 

Zerax

Regular EF Member
Messages
127
Location
London
Cheeky Sod.

No I mean I had extra work to do, to correct the balls up done by the 'others' previously mentioned. Which was why sometimes I did kitchen refurbs on day rate; sometimes it was only after the old units were removed, to reveal what had to be done/corrected.

If some of your reasoning, is because trades are falling over themselves, then you are not planning things properly. I was given dates, as to when I would have the venue to myself, to do my work. Same as the other trades.
I hate working on site with other trades... I'd much rather have the place to myself !
 
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Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
Lol sorry
I always need to be onsite when he's working to make sure it's right. It doesn't pay for me to have a day just so he can fo his bit.
Perhaps I'm just getting grumpy in my old age, definitely less tolerant. Working in peace by myself seems so appealing now.
 
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Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
Flipping text.
Meant that it doesn't pay for me to take a day just so he has a clear run.
Although I did last week and had to chop the cooker hood supply over the freshly plastered wall by 50mm. My black marker must be invisible.
 

Midwest

Electrician's Arms
Messages
11,174
Location
Oxfordshire
Flipping text.
Meant that it doesn't pay for me to take a day just so he has a clear run.
Although I did last week and had to chop the cooker hood supply over the freshly plastered wall by 50mm. My black marker must be invisible.
I don't understand your working procedures. Each part of the first & second fix needs to follow a procedure. Pointless having the painter in before the plasterer.
 

Andy78

Respected Member
Messages
8,393
Location
Kingston upon Hull
I'm surprised you haven't just come to an arrangement with a local electrician whereby you chase in the cables and he comes along later to connect it up, test and sign off. That sort of thing is undoubtedly frowned upon by many but in the real world it happens a lot and is a reasonable compromise for all involved
I encountered a kitchen fitter lately that took that approach with his sparky. He had no idea about cable calcs and derating factors but was being left to design and first fix before his sparky tested and signed off.
He was actually quite shocked his sparky mate had not told him any of this and was worried when I told him what a concern all those cables he had been stuffing in insulated walls could be.
 
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Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
Midwest, I have procedures not sure why you think otherwise.
I simply work with the electrician, he's doing his bit whilst I'm doing mine.
I'm simply saying I don't leave site just so the sparky has a clear room. This would make the installation longer for no good reason.
 

Midwest

Electrician's Arms
Messages
11,174
Location
Oxfordshire
Not how I worked.

Basic model, came in on the day when old units etc being ripped out, safely disconnecting old stuff as required.

Did my first fix, plasterer followed me, often then by painter (for mist coat), then flooring guy if that was being fitted. I’d then come back do most of my 2nd fix, painter might follow to finish.

Only then would the kitchen installers come along to install the kitchen. They would of been busy elsewhere. There were occasions when I 2nd fixed when the kitchen was being installed, very rare, and mostly to install fixed appliances.

Everyone trying to work in one place at the same time, is just poor practice.
 
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Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
So the only difference is the 2nd fix. Sparky likes to 2nd fix and connect appliances all in one, not 2nd fix then coming back again to connect appliances, which I'm happy with. Doesn't make sense for him to keep coming back.
Sometimes sockets go in cabinets, that'll be hard with no units fitted. Not unless you fit above counter fuse spurs for every appliance which looks awful with switches everywhere.
 

Midwest

Electrician's Arms
Messages
11,174
Location
Oxfordshire
Not really. I can more easily 2nd fix without wall and floor units in the way; appliances & cupboard sockets etc I would do after or just as they were finishing off.

You run your business how you want to. When I was doing it, it made sense for not everyone to be working in one space; you’d just get in each other’s way.

I don’t see this concept as a reason to do the electrical work yourself.
 
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Enduro73

Active EF Member
Messages
26
Location
Gloucester
Fair enough mate each to their own I suppose. I don't do other jobs where I can leave site and work, so walking away when mr sparks is in doesn't pay.
It is an option I suppose if I take on day jobs, but not much work is a day job. Plastering isn't always required, so even less reason to walk away.
 

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