G59/3

[The Solar King]

Is everyone aware this is now live including the simplified two page application form for up to 50kW / 17kW single phase. All available here:

ENA - Distributed Generation Overview

 

[SibertSolar]

Yup... ;-) Deadline for inverter certification to be complete, and firmware to be ready, is 1st December.

 

[Gavin A]

brilliant, thanks for posting that, it's like the holy grail has arrived and just in the nick of time too, as we have a mammoth G59 applications session in the pipeline for next week.

 

[SibertSolar]

Have they changed their stance on half-hourly metering over 30kWp? The cut-off points table in the G59/3 connection guide states "must have half-hourly metering" for systems over 30kWp. I thought it was always an "opt-in" for the purposes of claiming the export tariff?

 

[SibertSolar]

Ted/anyone - Is HH metering compulsory >30kWp?

 

[TedM]

Export metering over 30kW has to be HH if the customer wants to be paid for export and if their FiT supplier decides they have to register the export in the Settlelment system (it's very unlikely that they wouldn't).

These are the reference documents:
http://www.elexon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Section_L_v16.0.pdf
Section 2.2.1 c

"Small Scale Third Party Generating Plant Limit (SSTPGPL)" is set at 30kW but could change.
http://www.elexon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SVG143_02_SSTPGPL_v1.0.pdf

Reviews
http://www.elexon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/SVG132_08_SVG-SSTPGPL-2012.pdf
http://www.elexon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/208_01b_SVG_Report.pdf

 

[SibertSolar]

Thanks Ted, what I'm getting at is whether export metering is compulsory or not for >30kWp, full stop. I'll have a read through the reference docs later on, thanks again

 

[Gavin A]

oh, I hope it's not going to be compulsory.

does anyone know if the data for these export meters is monitored in real time in any way, or if that capability is just being wasted?

I could understand it a bit if they wanted to monitor the actual export levels in order to determine the remaining export capacity on that transformer etc in future.

 

[SibertSolar]

All Smart (GSM enabled) meters we offer are "day +1" on the online portal(s) - HH setup or not....

 

[Gavin A]

ay, but what about the export meters. Surely they must be better than that for the running costs they're charging.

 

[SibertSolar]

It's the same product Gavin, a GSM/GPRS-enabled kWh meter, set up for HH packets of data. I'm not aware of any back-end portal that isn't day+1 but I could be wrong, would make sense to be real time though (well, as near as dammit anyway, there's a lag of 1hr even on the Intellymodem for 4-Noks.).

Most Smart metering contracts will cost between £30 and £50 a year to pay for the data and portal costs. meters vary from just less than £100 for 1ph to over £200 for 3ph

 

[Gavin A]

It's the same product Gavin, a GSM/GPRS-enabled kWh meter, set up for HH packets of data. I'm not aware of any back-end portal that isn't day+1 but I could be wrong, would make sense to be real time though (well, as near as dammit anyway, there's a lag of 1hr even on the Intellymodem for 4-Noks.).

Most Smart metering contracts will cost between £30 and £50 a year to pay for the data and portal costs. meters vary from just less than £100 for 1ph to over £200 for 3ph

I was under the impression the export metering companies were charging more like £250-300 a year management fees.

The GSM enabled smart meters should be capable of sending the data as often as required, it should just depend how they're programmed. The deciding factor on this being the cost, as it costs a lot less to send them in 6 hourly packets of data in a single sms than it does to send 12 x SMS per 6 hours / 48 a day if each half hourly packet was sent immediately (12 x less presumably).

I'd assumed this half hourly data was then being fed into the national grid balancing mechanism, which would be sensible when there's 3-4GWp of the stuff installed now, but maybe it's not.

 

[TedM]

Thanks Ted, what I'm getting at is whether export metering is compulsory or not for >30kWp, full stop. I'll have a read through the reference docs later on, thanks again

I'll try re-wording what I said.

Over 30kW it's only compulsory to have an export meter if the customer wants to be paid for any export. So if they expect to export little then there is no point.

It then only needs to be a HH meter if the FiT supplier wants to register the export in the Settlement system but I cannot think of any real reason why they wouldn't want to. There might be the occasional exception to this but, off-hand, I cannot think why.

So in all cases where the customer wants to be paid for FiT export on an over 30kW system then the export needs to be metered and the meter needs to be HH.

The latest review shows that the panel responsible for advising on what the limit should be have been looking at reducing this to 20kW or even 10kW - rather than raising the limit - but have decided not to change anything.

If a customer elects to have an export meter on a sub-30kW system then the meter doesn't need to be HH.

 

[SibertSolar]

Thanks Ted, much appreciated. I think we all understood this to be the case but I was thrown by the wording in the Connection Guide with regards >30kWp systems. I have received this document from the Engineering Policy and Standards Manager at ENA this morning - confirms your feedback.

 

[TedM]

The only anomaly that remains is that the FiT legislation refers to the 30kW limit in terms of TIC and the various BSC documents either do not make it clear or say "For the purposes of the BSC this rating is determined by the aggregate maximum generation capacity as measured at the Boundary Point" which - given the Boundary Point is the DNO's fuse - I would interpret as DNC.

So it is possible that a system could be just over 30kW TIC and therefore not benefit from deemed export and need a meter but also fall just below 30kW DNC and strictly not need a HH meter.

But this is hardly surprising given the other anomalies in the FiT legislation regarding the definitions of TIC and DNC.

 

[SibertSolar]

Thanks Ted, I just highlighted that exact anomoly with David Spillett on email.....do I have your email address? I'll forward you on the conversation if you want?

 

[TedM]

[email protected]

 

[SibertSolar]

Just FYI but the ambiguous wording in the Connection Guide has now been clarified wrt export metering >30kWp TIC. The anomaly wrt the boundary point still remains though....