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Hi all, I want to add some under cabinet LED’s to the kitchen and hardwire them to a light switch.
We had our kitchen newly fitted out sometime back and the electrician has already wired to a spare switch we have and left the other end of the wire in a junction box on top of the cabinets. This because we couldn’t make our minds up what we wanted at the time!
My question is, all the LED’s I’ve seen for sale have a transformer leading to a plug on the end, can I take the plug off and simply wire in to the junction box? Also is there anything I need to be looking for in terms of what is compatible for what I want to do?
Thanks in advance.
 

DPG

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Is it a standard 13A mains plug or a plug top transformer on your new LED lights?
 

littlespark

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change the joint box to a single socket if its a plug top transformer or you don't want to cut off a moulded plug for invalidating warranty issues.

Out of interest. How will you get the cable from the transformer down behind each cabinet? Some are close to wall, others have a gap.
 

buzzlightyear

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I was just about to ask that ,drat.has the kitchen fitter left a hole for the led light to go under the cabinet. .
 
D

Deleted member 105166

Provided the load is 230V, you shouldn't have any problem.
Obviously you can't connect the wire that comes out of the transformer to your switch - the transformer is essential as it converts 230V AC to an extra low voltage DC supply for the LEDs
 
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Provided the load is 230V, you shouldn't have any problem.
Obviously you can't connect the wire that comes out of the transformer to your switch - the transformer is essential as it converts 230V AC to an extra low voltage DC supply for the LEDs
Thank you for your quick replies.
Yes the kitchen fitter and electrician left loads of room behind a bespoke cupboard. The type of LED’s I were looking at had the thin wires from the lights leading to the transformer and then from the transformer the 240v wires leading to a 13 amp fused plug.
If I understand correctly I can either chop of the plug and connect the wires into the joint box or take the joint box off and swap it for a plug socket if I don’t cut off the plug from the lights?
I was planning on getting the electrician back however if it’s a simple job I thought I could carry this out!
Cheers.
 

Spoon

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I'd keep the plug on the transformer and change the junction box to a single socket. I presume the plug is fused correctly for the transformer just the junction box is just wired to the light breaker. Most prob 6A breaker.
What size fuse is in the plug?
 

buzzlightyear

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You can get led lights to go under the cabinet so they dont need a transformer like you aurora.or andsel what type are you putting in is it the tape ones .??
 
Putting a 13 amp socket on the lighting circuit is bad practice. Don't do it. Just remove the plug and wire it into a junction box.

Incidentally LEDs don't have a transformer which is an AC device and LEDs need DC. It will be an LED driver or power supply.
 

littlespark

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It’s perfectly acceptable.
Just label it as “cabinet lights only” and no one will plug in a Hoover......
And it’s on top of a wall unit, so not much chance of that.

Spot on with difference between transformer and driver.
Drivers are for LED, and transformers are robots in disguise:p
 

DPG

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Incidentally LEDs don't have a transformer which is an AC device and LEDs need DC. It will be an LED driver or power supply.
It's common to refer to them as transformers though. It isn't really a problem in most cases, and is better than trying to explain the difference between an electromagnetic device and a switch mode power supply to someone who doesn't really care.
 
What about all those 1000s of 13a plug sockets up in lofts nicked of the upstairs lighting to feed one tv signal amp
Thousands of examples of bad practice does,'t make it right. Imagine someone, maybe a wife, going up there and deciding it needs a clean, lugging a high power vacuum cleaner up, and plunging the place into darkness with no floor boards there!

Anyway aren't most aerial amplifiers phantom powered up the coax from a power supply near the TV?
 
Thousands of examples of bad practice does,'t make it right. Imagine someone, maybe a wife, going up there and deciding it needs a clean, lugging a high power vacuum cleaner up, and plunging the place into darkness with no floor boards there!

Anyway aren't most aerial amplifiers phantom powered up the coax from a power supply near the TV?
I don’t buy the argument that Mrs Jones might lug the hoover up into the loft to hoover up cobwebs.
If the socket is labelled ‘amplifier only do not unplug’ then that’s good enough for me.
I’m not a fan of sockets on lighting circuits but if needs must then it’s ok imo if labelled correctly
 
It's common to refer to them as transformers though. It isn't really a problem in most cases, and is better than trying to explain the difference between an electromagnetic device and a switch mode power supply to someone who doesn't really care.
But that sort of sloppiness is how these incorrect terms propagate.
 

davesparks

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Putting a 13 amp socket on the lighting circuit is bad practice. Don't do it. Just remove the plug and wire it into a junction box.

Incidentally LEDs don't have a transformer which is an AC device and LEDs need DC. It will be an LED driver or power supply.
So you advocate cutting off the manufacturer fitted plug in this case, but berate anyone else who suggests it in other threads?
 
Why cut off the melded plug top when you can fit a 13a socket on a patress in about 5 minutes flat.
So much easier than faffing about cutting off plug tops and using JBs.
What happens when the led light fails?
The customer is faced having to unpick a Jb
If it were simply plugged in they could quickly and easily replace the light themselves
 
George can you keep this on topic please.
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George if you care to look at Regulation 559.5.1 you will see a BS1363-2 socket-outlet is an accepted means for connecting a light fitting to the fixed wiring system.
 
Why cut off the melded plug top when you can fit a 13a socket on a patress in about 5 minutes flat.
So much easier than faffing about cutting off plug tops and using JBs.
What happens when the led light fails?
The customer is faced having to unpick a Jb
If it were simply plugged in they could quickly and easily replace the light themselves
Simply because a 13a socket on the lighting circuit is bad practice. If you must have a plug and socket use a 2a or 5a one.
 

telectrix

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It's common to refer to them as transformers though. It isn't really a problem in most cases, and is better than trying to explain the difference between an electromagnetic device and a switch mode power supply to someone who doesn't really care.
but what about LEDs that will run on a.c. as well as d.c?
 

littlespark

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AC/DC???? It all sounds like a highway to hell to me.

:):D:p


Seriously though... if there’s space down the back of the units, just drop the lights down there, driver on top of unit, hidden... and plugged in.
Most of these LED kits come with one driver with a number of outputs. If plugging in multiple lights into one, just make sure the total load on each driver doesn’t exceed the max stated output of the driver.
 

Midwest

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I installed a double outdoor socket, in readiness to plug some Philips garden lights into. Forgot to tell the guy installing my decking; he plugged in his 110v chop saw into it, which tripped the lighting mcb, when he went to cut some decking.

He plugged his saw into something else, and I reset the mcb when I got home. But we survived.
 

pirate

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Genuinely interested in the various answers here!
If it's a dedicated lighting circuit, why risk someone plugging in a big Hoover? Just put in a JB and then no-one can do that?
If it's a rfc or radial for sockets, just use a plug and connect the driver that way...I know my lights are plugged into one outlet of a double socket, the other socket powers the fridge/freezer.
Horses for courses?
 

DPG

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Genuinely interested in the various answers here!
If it's a dedicated lighting circuit, why risk someone plugging in a big Hoover? Just put in a JB and then no-one can do that?
If it's a rfc or radial for sockets, just use a plug and connect the driver that way...I know my lights are plugged into one outlet of a double socket, the other socket powers the fridge/freezer.
Horses for courses?
Nobody is going to climb on top of the cupboard to plug the Hoover in :)
 
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pirate

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DPG, if you saw the way the "professionals" wired this place...you would have to plug the vacuum cleaner in on top of the units!
Seriously, what i meant was, if, for example, you wanted to plug the extractor fan in, then a handy double socket would be the thing. But...if that socket was off the lighting circuit, you might not want to do that...even though the fan is fairly low powered. i just think that if you see a 13A socket, you might expect it to be for that type of load, whereas, to put a 13A socket on a lighting circuit, just to power some LEDs might be confusing. I expect no-one will die as a result! It's a bit like pump nozzles at the filling station...some supply diesel, some supply petrol...always nice to be sure what you are getting out of the nozzle!
 
It does not specify the purpose of the circuit it gives suitable methods of connecting a luminaire to the fixed wiring.
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I never said a 13a socket should not be used supply lighting. I have said a 13a socket should be on the lighting circuit. Not the same thing at all.
In #21 you refer to this as bad practice.
 
I have said a 13a socket should not be on the lighting circuit.

Typo corrected. ('not' added).
There is no Regulation prohibiting this in fact it is a suggested method of connecting a luminaire. I agree in some instances using one in an inappropriate place may cause problems and in such instances 2A or 5A maybe the correct method, I have 2A at home. One amendment to the 16th Ed removed 13A sockets from the suggested list but was reinstated.
 

DPG

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It's never going to end this one :)

A 13A socket on top of a cupboard is not going to cause any problems. It's not even as if it will be available for general use anyway, as the lights will always be plugged into it.
 
D

Deleted member 105166

The 13A socket will often be the most suitable means of connection, since most freestanding/table luminaires are supplied with a moulded 13A plugtop. Whilst 2A or 5A BS546 sockets do offer the benefit of being less likely to be misused for appliances with greater current draw, the downside is, an Ordinary Person will more often than not be the one to cut the moulded plugtop from the luminaire and fit the BS546 plugtop, often badly. Then they chuck the non-rewirable, moulded 13A plugtop into the waste basket, with fuse intact and bare copper exposed, ready for an inquisitive kid to retrieve and take to their bedroom. Months later when the luminaire is moved to a different room, or area without BS546 outlets, it again requires rewiring by an Ordinary Person.
 
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davesparks

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Then they chuck the non-rewirable, moulded 13A plugtop into the waste basket, with fuse intact and bare copper exposed, ready for an inquisitive kid to retrieve and take to their bedroom.
If a child is rummaging in bins to find things to play with then it's owner needs to take better control of it!
 

Dave OCD

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Its owner Dave, really ? :laughing:
Post automatically merged:

The 13A socket will often be the most suitable means of connection, since most freestanding/table luminaires are supplied with a moulded 13A plugtop. Whilst 2A or 5A BS546 sockets do offer the benefit of being less likely to be misused for appliances with greater current draw, the downside is, an Ordinary Person will more often than not be the one to cut the moulded plugtop from the luminaire and fit the BS546 plugtop, often badly. Then they chuck the non-rewirable, moulded 13A plugtop into the waste basket, with fuse intact and bare copper exposed, ready for an inquisitive kid to retrieve and take to their bedroom. Months later when the luminaire is moved to a different room, or area without BS546 outlets, it again requires rewiring by an Ordinary Person.
Whenever I cut a moulded 13 amp plug off I always twist the live and neutral pins round with a pliers to prevent it ever being plugged in to anything ever again before binning it Tony, only takes a few seconds.
 

littlespark

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Cutting moulded plugs off? There's no reason to.
You'll invalidate the warranty, don't you know.


Oh no... not that subject again!:eek:
 
Thousands of examples of bad practice does,'t make it right. Imagine someone, maybe a wife, going up there and deciding it needs a clean, lugging a high power vacuum cleaner up, and plunging the place into darkness with no floor boards there!...
That's ok George... we're in the EU over here... we're not allowed high powered vacuum cleaners !
 
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