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This is something I've long been curious about. Given that twin brown is not as widely available as blue/brown T&E, and therefore likely to be more expensive, why do so many NI electricians use it rather than sleeve regular T&E?
It's available at every wholesaler in Northern Ireland, and generally no more expensive than T&E.
What isn't on the shelf at too many wholesalers here is 1.0mm T&E, pretty much everyone here uses 1.5mm T&E, even in those big bad new build housing developments
 
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Similar to Australia... Here it’s called the MEN multiple earthed Neutral. IEC 60364 describes the MEN as a TNC-S system but each property has an earth stake. TPS cable also has a sheathed earth and the cores are stranded. There is also a cable called a Twin Active which is red and White. Essentially for strappers.
Interesting in the UK we call ours protective multiple earthing (PME) for TNCS but it's uncommon to have a consumer Earth rod at the property as-well.

is the earth cable of TPS the same Size/CSA ?

mods is it possible to split the thread into another thread something like Different wiring practices in your country?
 

pc1966

Arms
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This is something I've long been curious about. Given that twin brown is not as widely available as blue/brown T&E, and therefore likely to be more expensive, why do so many NI electricians use it rather than sleeve regular T&E?
No idea, really. But it would save time (as well as looking professional) as no sleeving effort needed and at some point that might justify the expense of having it in your van for jobs.
 

Risteard

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This is something I've long been curious about. Given that twin brown is not as widely available as blue/brown T&E, and therefore likely to be more expensive, why do so many NI electricians use it rather than sleeve regular T&E?
It's the same price here.
 
I only heard of it's use in Ireland but does look like you can buy in UK.

Still think T&E is better with sleeving, easier to id switch line etc

I don't know if anyone has any thoughts on T&E bare conductor - I like the idea of same size CSA for cpc but not the price increase - sleeving is a pain for cpc but I like the old theory of bare cpc that its safer if you bang a nail in or brake down of insulation etc it will come into contact quicker with cpc.
 
It's available at every wholesaler in Northern Ireland, and generally no more expensive than T&E.
What isn't on the shelf at too many wholesalers here is 1.0mm T&E, pretty much everyone here uses 1.5mm T&E, even in those big bad new build housing developments
It's the same price here.
That's good enough reason to not bother with sleeving blue cores :smiley:

The reason I asked was the link previously posted to Meteor showed that they offer 1.5 twin brown at almost 50% higher price than blue/brown T&E. Obviously that's only one wholesaler, but it raised the question of price in my mind - especially given how frugal we can be in NI.



On a slightly different note; the house I grew up in was wired in VIR, with lighting run in singles which all had red inner insulation. Was this usual or was VIR generally used with black insulation for neutrals?

That old VIR installation was a work of art. Sadly the same couldn't be said for later additions which were generally shambolic and, in some instances, downright dangerous :disappointed:
 
Whats Vir?

I think 2 plate system must be more common in domestic wiring in Ireland? I say this because of the use of Twin Brown and Singles & Earth ?
 
Whats Vir?
Tinned stranded cores, with rubber insulation and sheath.

It may be that VIR is a particular type of rubber cable, but my layman's mind uses the term as a generic label.
 

KennyKen

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Arms
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Vulcanised Indian Rubber... used when sparkies were pretty good chippies. Anyway back to your original question. TPS, The CPC is the same core size as the Live and Neutral.
 

Risteard

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Whats Vir?

I think 2 plate system must be more common in domestic wiring in Ireland? I say this because of the use of Twin Brown and Singles & Earth ?
Mostly 3 plate, although some have moved to 2 plate.

Twin brown & singles & Earth etc. works perfectly with a 3 plate installation.
 

Risteard

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Arms
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I cant think where you would need a single with 3 plate? except the up/down hallway lighting?
Plenty of scenarios.

2-way lighting have a brown & Earth to the first switch from the permanent phase terminal; twin brown between switches (strappers), and then a single brown back to the luminaire from the 2nd switch to the switched phase terminal.

Or an outside light have a brown & Earth from the switch and a single blue from the luminaire, or a blue & Earth from the luminaire with a single brown from the switch if this is more efficient with cable.
 
I guess I would of called that 2 plate method very interesting.
 
The rest of the circuit is 3 plated.

And with the 2-ways it's still 3 plated.
Given the cost of 1.5 T&E and 3C&E, is the saving significant when using sheathed singles?

I'm interested in why lighting is often wired in this manner over here. It's not a criticism of our conventions, rather genuine curiosity.
 
plate.png

I assume you mean like pages 1 + 2?
Maybe someone can enlighten :lightbulb:me what does the word plate actually mean? I assume it's the number of wires?
 
I always took it to mean the number of line and neutral terminations, but that's probably wrong.

2 Plate = Switched line + Neutral
3 Plate = Line, Switched line + Neutral.


I'm becoming addicted to this forum, having gone from interested to avid in my absorbtion of information.
 
My thinking was that it was the terminations at the lamp itself, but again hopefully someone can confirm or (more likely) correct this.

2 plate providing switch line and neutral termination, with 3 plate also having termination for looped line conductors.
 
The term plate relates to the amount of terminals at the rose/batten holder, ignoring the earth terminal. Prior to three plate the fitting had two terminals or two at its base plate hence two plate. Later fittings had the loop terminal incorporated giving three terminals at its base plate, hence three plate.
 

7029 dave

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Mentor
Arms
View attachment 59128

I assume you mean like pages 1 + 2?
Maybe someone can enlighten :lightbulb:me what does the word plate actually mean? I assume it's the number of wires?
Three plate terminology is actually referring to the ceiling rose (3plate), IMO this method is outdated because simply not used very much, with modern light fittings, led , etc, all new builds down this way are fed at switch box. En54 would be moaning lol
 
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You've thrown a spanner in the works there don't know how you would label that?

it's the same as 3 plate wiring but at the switch.

hasn't Australia been using Loop at switch for a long time? do they still call it 3 plate?
 

7029 dave

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Arms
You've thrown a spanner in the works there don't know how you would label that?

it's the same as 3 plate wiring but at the switch.

hasn't Australia been using Loop at switch for a long time? do they still call it 3 plate?
Sorry Mark, are you not understanding my post?, anyway 3plate is the 3 plates of the ceiling rose ie connection points, nothing to do with the number of cables, I know you have feed in, loop feed, switch wire 3 cables but that is irrelevant.
 
yes sorry, shame on you just had all lose ends tidied

what name is suitable for Loop at switch? - 2 plate or 3 plate or just loop at switch?
 

davesparks

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Interesting in the UK we call ours protective multiple earthing (PME) for TNCS but it's uncommon to have a consumer Earth rod at the property as-well.
PME is the most common type of TNCS supply in the UK, but it is not the only type of TNCS supply.
A TNCS supply can be installed without it being PME.
 
yeah could get a bit confusing it you start calling multicore wiring 2 plate and single core wiring 3 plate even if historically it was the plates/termination plates whatever at the ceiling rose - when have you ever heard someone wiring 2 way+ light with 3 core call it 2 plate?

Your 3 terminations/plates whatever are now at the switch I.e 123 Live,Switch, Neutral all take place at the switch - it's multicore loop in the termination plate at the switch not at the ceiling rose but its still 3 terminations taking place.
it not a single core Neutarl run direct the light 1,2 Neutal, Switch.

T&E with no singles there will have to be 3 connections at some point of Live,Neutral and SL.

PME is the most common type of TNCS supply in the UK, but it is not the only type of TNCS supply.
A TNCS supply can be installed without it being PME.
Would this require at extra earth rod mandatory? or you make a decision based on Ze reading.
 
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