How to convert customer to board upgrade

[SW1970]

Classic scenario. Domestic customer. Rewireable Wylex fuseboard. All original late 60's/early 70's. Lots of sockets inc detached garage, plenty of opportunity to use mobile equipment outside. Needs a PIR and at least bonding and really a main board upgrade. About to quote customer but am expecting them to say they don't want to pay for it. Any pearls of wisdom on how to get customer to convert? Many thanks, SW.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Drop em off one of those "make the case for RCDs" flyers (available in free packs from screwfix counters)....just leave it on the sidetable or someware it will catch the eye so it gives them food for thought it will nag and nag at them and dont forget that if people are confronted with an official looking note/leaflet like that......well:it must be right then.....(we of course know the benefits of RCDs) but like you say ...try explaining that to the avarage layman.....might as well talk to a garden fence or summat........

 

[Monkey]

is that the plug in to safety from the ESC I checked with my poofix thay said it had stopped is
yours still doing it

 

[tlangdon12]

You could play up the safety angle for children, or if the customer is older , grandchildren who may come to visit.

The Plug into Safety Leaflet is still available online. http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/use...plug_into_safety/Electrician_Downloadable.pdf

 

[Blowcat]

Their DB is in excesss of 40 years old being used constantly for 24 hours a day 7 days a week, its the most important item of equipment in their property that provides them with protection to disconnect the power if a fault should accour. Its protecting their wiring that is likeley due for a rewire. Its a 1st step to upgrading their electrical system if they cannot do a full rewire. Let them know their DB, when it was originally installed was an excellant piece of kit but todays devices are fast, no need to worry about fuse wire again!!

 

[telectrix]

just tell the client's wife that next door are having theirs' done. she'll certainly want hers doing bigger and better.

 

[oldtimer]

Do the PIR then if you need to bring the system up to spec ie the lack of supplimentry bonding then highlight the fact that if the upgrade their DB they do not need to fix the bonding then give 2 prices 1 to sort the bonding the 2nd to put a new DB in remember you have already tested the installation on the PIR so there should be no surprises.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

is that the plug in to safety from the ESC I checked with my poofix thay said it had stopped is
yours still doing it

I think so but i just know it says "make the case for RCDs".......I`v got a load someware...will have to dig em out...........

 

[GLENNSPARK]

just tell the client's wife that next door are having theirs' done. she'll certainly want hers doing bigger and better.

We were at a house the other week second fixing after some kitchen fitters when the neigbours came over to have a nost at the new kitchen......My boss n i didn`t waste any time pointing out to her the expensive fronts and the new high integrity dis board that we had put on for her.............now she feels jealous of next doors new kitchen and no dowt will nag hubby to get her a new one....we should get the electrical work.............:tounge_smile:

 

[Spoon]

Dont use the line "You can't put a price on safety." I dont trust anyone who says that to me, but then again thats just me.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

BS 3036 type dis boards:
As long as fuses to BS 3036 meet the disconnection times of .4 seconds as laid out in TABLE 41.2 P (48) BS 7671 or 5 seconds as laid out in TABLE 41.4 P (49) BS 7671 then they are ok. The problem with these boards is they dont have RCD protection so you would mention this in the observations and recommendations box on a PIR cert P (338) BS7671 as a code 4. You cant condemn an older board/install just because it doesn`t comply with the latest edition of BS 7671 but you may want to recommend to the person ordering the PIR and/or any other interested parties that an RCD/RCDS/RCBOs would be in their interests as far as ADDITIONAL PROTECTION is concerned.

 

[spark 68]

You cant condemn an older board/install just because it doesn`t comply with the latest edition of BS 7671 but you may want to recommend to the person ordering the PIR and/or any other interested parties that an RCD/RCDS/RCBOs would be in their interests as far as ADDITIONAL PROTECTION is concerned.

Exactly Glenns,

I would do as another poster suggested, do a very thorough PIR first, note any problems, and also point out the difficulty of doing any future upgrades/additions also point out the dangers of using equipment outside etc.

If you 'talk' the customer into something they don't want (or they don't see the need for), and you come across any remedial work (which has to be paid for), this could bite you in the ---, as you will then be between a rock and a hard place, your scheme provider will not help or have any sympathy with you, and just say you should have done thorough PIR first.

Just to add, a CU change is not always neccessary, there are other options to add RCD protection.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Garage RCD board first THEN into the BS3036.........

 

[spark 68]

Garage RCD board first THEN into the BS3036

Would this comply with circuit segregation ? 314.1 etc.

Albeit it would be safer

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Well i think you would struggle to get discrimination and diversity with this setup....a problem with boards that had an RCD incomer and 6 breakers (typically BS3871) such as the MEM type boards..........

 

[telectrix]

Garage RCD board first THEN into the BS3036.........

that would mean henley blocks and 16mm/25mm tails to the RCD. putting the RCD after the 3036, it can be fed with 6mm. ( if a RFC)

 

[GLENNSPARK]

that would mean henley blocks and 16mm/25mm tails to the RCD. putting the RCD after the 3036, it can be fed with 6mm. ( if a RFC)

Thanks tel...this would also give discrimination wouldn`t it?..........

 

[spark 68]

What I was getting at here

Just to add, a CU change is not always neccessary, there are other options to add RCD protection

.

The Regs don't apply retrospectively, and it is not always necessary to try to bring the whole installation up to date in one go, even though this would be my preferred option, and it would be better, safer and likely the cheapest option in the long run.

For instance if you wanted to say add a shower, obviously the upstairs lights (or bathroom etc.) and the shower would need either a seperate (2 way) small cu, with an RCD and MCBs, or better two RCBO's etc., the bonding etc. may or may not require updating (which earthing system ?) each situation is different.

I was just pointing out we have to work within the regs and often within the customers budget, and it is not easy having to marry the two, there is always more than one way of achieving a solution to a given problem, not always the preferred or the the best way.

This is what makes this trade so interesting

 

[telectrix]

Thanks tel...this would also give discrimination wouldn`t it?..........

yes and no. you could just rely on the 3036, or add a 32A MCB in the RCD enclosure as well. the discrimination would be that , generally, the 32A MCB will trip before the 30A 3036 blows, even though it's a 2A higher rating.

 

[Bud1975]

Hi guys,

I had worked in sales for many years and there is something called "downhill" selling. I'm sure many of you do it automatically without even thinking about it but here goes.........

Basically give the customer rough figures for a complete board change to a 17th edition board incorporating all the RCD protection they could want. If the customer seems interested in that then happy days!

If they are not happy with that sort of scenario, then working out a different way of incorporating an RCD (I.e to piggyback the consumer unit to just include that particular circuit etc) suddenly seems a lot cheaper to the customer!! Downhill selling

Regards

 

[Knobhead]

There’s always the rack, thumb screws, etc. Sign on the dotted line NOW! “I can’t”. “Why not”? “My hands are still nailed to the table”!

If you coerce someone in to agreeing to a sale, don’t be surprised if the warm smelly stuff lands in your lap!