Discuss I get it, FAST TRACK courses are more than frowned upon.......BUT; in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:  American Electrical Advice Forum

Good avo people,
As the title states; I know I'm going to be the victim of negativity and stone throwing here but I would be extremely grateful if you guys, the professionals and experts, could shed a touch of light on this subject for me.

I have read sheds loads of posts, forums, stories, etc, regarding this subject and agree that fast tracking is an insult to those who have worked their knackers off through years of apprenticeship schemes and college.
Fast tracking does not allow for the info/learning to be absorbed over 2-3 years college study and probably isn't nearly as practical regarding the.....practical.
However, in theory......both fast tracking and college effectively give the student the qualifications needed to get their foot on this career ladder irrespective of course length. Both sets of students will have next to no onsite/practical experience and both have will have only applied the practices in a workshop environment.
Either way, the newly 'qualified' person (fast track or 2 years at college) will still need to pursue invaluable experience alongside a time served sparky.
So, are the pros just p****d off that fast tracking deducts the need for years of study that eventually (and as far as the qualifications governing body are concerned) gets them to the same point? Or is it because, effectively, these fast track courses could flood the market with potential electricians and so devaluing the trade?.......serious questions.

The reasons for the above; I would love to turn the clock back to when I was 16-24 and jump on an electrical installations apprenticeship but that ship sailed a long time ago. Night college is potentially a root but why do it in 2 years when I can do it in 10 months?.......will I find it easier to get a job as a newly qualified spark, in my late 30's, with no experience, for doing the course over years rather than months???

Electricians jobs on Indeed.co.uk state experience alongside the relevant qualifications (nothing mentioned about fast tracking or college root). So I was wondering what your thoughts are on the subject.

Sorry for digging the subject up for the millionth time across the internet but sometimes an answer other than,
"I wouldn't waste my money on fast tracking, you learn nowt and no one in the universe is gonna employ you!"
Or is it a way to show a potential employer that, while apprenticeships are out of reach, spending a few grand on the course and studying while holding down a full time job shows initiative and an eagerness to better yourself?!
 
Bulk Workwear - Clothing Suppliers for the Whole Forum Network
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
You are overthinking this just get on with it.
Haha. You know what.....that's probably the best answer I could have ever expected to have received! And I genuinely mean it....nice one.
 

richy3333

-
Mentor
Arms
Supporter
Esteemed
Dont agree. My apprentice does block release. Yes he works in a booth similar (I guess) to the Electrical Trainee courses doing practical, but the theory he learns far exceeds what a short course could ever give. In his first year he has worked plastic and galvanised conduit, tray and plastic and galvanised trunking. I just dont believe these short form courses give you this?

Plus he works with me when not at college and therefore gets real world experience. I really don't think you can compare the two anywhere near an equal footing. BTW he's also 27 and on a wage below minimum because he has the drive to make the sacrifice to do it properly.

At the end of it he will have far superior qualifications and experience to a short course attendee.
 

snowhead

-
Mentor
Apprentices do (well did when I was one in the late 60's ) get site experience, it's not all college.
I did Block release (6 wks work, 6wks college,, repeat.) for the first 2 years, plus employers own training courses within the work periods.
Day release (plus 1 evening) for year 3.
At that point classed as competent and allowed to work without direct supervision.
2 Evenings for years 4 and 5.
 
T

The Ghost

The simple fact is you have no other way. Because you will always be second best you will just have to try harder and maybe you will exceed the cognoscenti eventually. Shame you will have to learn on other peoples houses though. Clearly there is a vast difference between a one off five week course covering the essential basic science and a structured working environment with block release over two years the two items cannot be compared they are light years away from each other. When I say you I really mean the general population who take the five week route. It really prepares you for domestic electrician only. Which while there is a lot of regs and laws to follow is doable. I have always maintained I could teach anyone the science to wiring a house in 24 hours. But I could not train them the method to do so that would take a couple of years practice. I have had a few people work with me that have done the 3 year course (C&G2365) who make me feel like I am losing the will to live they are so hopeless. Then there are some who at 2 years into the course are completely great at working so it is very much to do with the person in question. Let us be clear whether you have done a century long course or a two minute course it seems in the real world it has no bearing on how good you are as I have seen all levels at work some are impressive and I know I will never be as good as them others on paper are better but in the real world are crap. Just get on with it.
 
Had loads of apprentices with me,they have done the 3 years,& are complete useless out in the real world,where real decisions have to be made.
 

littlespark

-
Arms
Esteemed
At the end of it he will have far superior qualifications and experience to a short course attendee.
Identical qualification, superior experience. That's the whole point of the OP's question.

It can be down to the individual. I'm sure there are short course sparks out there who really know their stuff. Likewise there are guys who did the same apprenticeship route I did, but have dumped the career and fell back into filling shelves and sweeping floors because they couldn't get their head around the theory OR the practical.
 

snowhead

-
Mentor
because they couldn't get their head around the theory OR the practical.
Or sweeping the floor
Or working in the freezing cold
Or working on scaffold towers or lifts
Or even working, some of them.
 

TJ Anderson

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
This is gonna sound really harsh, but......Some people are really thick and some people are really smart. There are folks out there that could do a 10 year apprenticeship (hypothetically ) and still be useless lol. If you are smart then, figure it all out, time is a bit against you. See what quals the employers ask for, that's what you need to achieve. In this trade there is always new things, for everyone, no matter how long you have been in it, you never stop learning new stuff.
 
I'm with @Vortigern. Just get on with it. This reminds me of a previous life in the RAF where going through training, 3/4 years on site as mechanic further training and then as technician. They introduced Direct entry (DE) where you could just join as a technician and it upset the world, well all the other mechanics - someone with little experience can easily be made to look a fool by those with it - that doesn't make it right. Would I be a better driver if I did a 40 hr week intensive or over weeks / months? No. Passing the test is when you start to learn. Get the qualification and then never forget to start learning... again.
 
Short courses are okay for people who already have experience in construction (builders, plumbers, etc) or advanced diy'ers looking for a career in domestic installation.
 

7029 dave

-
Mentor
Arms
I am livening proof, done my gas safe training in 2017, 16 weeks got my ticket at the age of 53. Do I feel qualified? no not really because I have not done a full apprenticeship in this field experience etc , however 40 years in the electrical industry yes have the confidence to say yes this is my game.

Times have changed, my point is as above the world has changed so push on.!! ( cannon fodder)
 
I was 26 when i started my level 2. 3 kids and a mortgage. I did level 2 2 days a weel and worked part time in a non electrical role...so basically i gave up full time work for it. After my first year i got an apprenticeship and 2 years later i passed and im now reaping the benefits.
On my first ever job with the company who took me they also had an agency worker help me and the electrician who had done a short course he was early 50's...utterly useless, couldn't wrap his head around loop in loop out lighting (didnt even know switch fed) or how to wire a ring circuit as it was too confusing to him (i wish i was joking) and this man actually advertised himself out to the general public.

As well as the experience and knowledge you gain from being an apprentice its also the reward of gaining that qualification at the end.
To many people are too quick to find the fast route around things nowadays and dont wanna put the hard work in.
 

AJshep

-
Arms
Esteemed
Short courses serve a purpose and I believe if you are a good trades person then you can benifit from these short courses, and will probably work to a good standard.
My main issue is that many people that take these short courses dont care, they will just go out and advertise themselves electricians after 6 weeks, some work outside their comfort zone. The short course only gives the basics needed to work on domestic installations, and it can be a really good way of getting your foot in the door but unfortunately its open to abuse. If your thinking of trying to get a job working for a good wage on a company after completing a Part P course it might be harder than expected as people advertising for electricians are after electricians (not domestic installers) so its worth bearing that in mind. Many people are forced to go self employed after taking the course because the training centre's did not explain this to them properly.

Articles like this really get my back up, especially the final thoughts...
Electrician: Domestic Installer - https://electricianqualifications.info/electrician-domestic-installer/

Good luck whatever you choose.
 

telectrix

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
taken from that link, word for word... WTF?
"But if you only intend to ever work as a regular plumber around people’s homes then he could be the best choice for you to get started in a new career".
 

snowhead

-
Mentor
And here's me thinking Part P is a Building reg, didn't realise it was a Domestic Installer competence test;
(ignore the their competent which should be their competence or that they're competent , it's not the only error as Tel spotted)

"Under current government regulations anyone who does this kind of work must prove their competent to do so, this is called the part P scheme."
 

telectrix

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
And here's me thinking Part P is a Building reg, didn't realise it was a Domestic Installer competence test;
(ignore the their competent which should be their competence or that they're competent , it's not the only error as Tel spotted)

"Under current government regulations anyone who does this kind of work must prove their competent to do so, this is called the part P scheme."
well spotted that man.give yourself a 18th edition cigar .
 
D

Deleted member 26818

Personally, it’s not the people taking the courses that bother me, it’s the people offering the corses.
Statements like “Everything you need to turn professional”.
Followed by this list of qualifications:
Part P domestic installer,
Building Regulations for electrical installations in dwellings,
Pat testing,
18th edition wiring regulations,
Fundamental testing and inspecting,
Initial verification,
Periodic inspection and testing.

To my mind, the first 3 qualifications are a complete waste of money.
The Part P domestic installer qualification is intended for plumbers and kitchen fitters who may want to wire up a boiler or add a couple of sockets in a kitchen.

Who needs a qualification to read the Approved Document Part P?

What has testing Portable Appliance got to do with electrical installation?

The 18th edition is an update course intended for electricians who were trained to earlier editions.
Electricians trained to the 18th should not need updating.

Fundamental inspection and testing should be part of your core electrical training, as should be initial verification.

Periodic inspection and testing is intended for experienced electricians trained to conduct periodic inspections.

Apart from the fact that there is no core electrical qualifications being offered, there’s also no mention of AM2 or NVQ3.
From what I understand, the NVQ3 is required by the schemes as well as the JIB (which also requires the AM2 to be graded).
The trainees only find out that they need the NVQ3 after they’ve completed the courses and then try to register with a scheme or the JIB.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
I wasn't expecting such a positive response so thanks for all the advice, really appreciate it.
Getting off my a**e and pushing on was never a problem but making the right decision for me was......the path is clearer now so thanks again :)
 

dinger809

-
Arms
I have worked with some who have done short courses and many from apprenticeships.
Firstly, if you’re honest on site, say you are learning, listen, watch, learn and knuckle down to it, you’ll find you’ll be ok. Some people I’ve had from these courses have been really good. Some have been an absolute liability, because they have no ability to listen and learn and they think they know it all...... the same with some apprentices. Some have been lazy, thick, incompetent and totally useless.
It also, as with anything, depends greatly on your instructors, their ability to teach and get things across in a way that you understand.
So, the short answer is, these courses are good for some people and are a good way to get a basic understanding and basic working knowledge. Just realise you don’t truly begin to learn until you get out on site.

Good luck
 
Aico 3000 Range
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Reply to I get it, FAST TRACK courses are more than frowned upon.......BUT; in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Aico 3000 Range
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
Top Bottom