Internet central heating controllers

[Octopus]

Is it me or are they as annoying as all the far eastern spam?

Yes we have the option to ignore them, but the rate they are appearing on the site is getting out of hand IMHO

Should there be a specific area for these?

I don't see why people on here are expected to give away their knowledge and experience for free, whilst the vendors of the products sit back and make profits ?

Just saying

 

[static zap]

My Blood is warming a little .
(Find something good -then with time watch it change - More tech , faster change )
Seen internet business .Com boom bust
Snooping big data ,out of fashion.
Just another bit of "globalization" .
... Or have our opinions annoyed the
internet GODs ....

 

[static zap]

Get it installed price ,probably a new BG service !

 

[davesparks]

They are Annoying but I have had two nest install jobs so far as a result of these posts, can’t complain too much as it’s easy money.

 

[Octopus]

They are Annoying but I have had two nest install jobs so far as a result of these posts, can’t complain too much as it’s easy money.

Which is the right outcome ............. but a lot of these posters think they can get all the information free .............

 

[polo1]

I think part of the problem is that the site advertises free advice, then some regulars get on their high horse when DIYers come on and ask how to wire them up!
It might be better to put/have info in the Arms, to inform those of us who are not clued up on these systems, and perhaps to PM electricians who come on asking for advice?
Just sayin too.

 

[Midwest]

My lad is thinking of getting a Nest or similar, so guess I might be asking Having looked at some of the download instructions, doesn't look that hard. Except perhaps with a boiler providing outputs. Might have to PM you Murdoch!

Incidentally, I'd take issue with that member calling you Murdock, ain't that a flipping fizzy drink.

 

[Toneyz]

They are Annoying but I have had two nest install jobs so far as a result of these posts, can’t complain too much as it’s easy money.

Dave, it is only easy as you have taken the time and probably money to forward yourself in installing this product/system.

 

[Toneyz]

My lad is thinking of getting a Nest or similar, so guess I might be asking Having looked at some of the download instructions, doesn't look that hard. Except perhaps with a boiler providing outputs. Might have to PM you Murdoch!

Incidentally, I'd take issue with that member calling you Murdock, ain't that a flipping fizzy drink.

If you mean me I apologised in the next post for spelling his name incorrectly it was getting late and getting tired.

 

[telectrix]

i still can't understand the need to turn heating on when i'm out. dogs can stand a bit of cold till i get back.

 

[Strima]

i still can't understand the need to turn heating on when i'm out. dogs can stand a bit of cold till i get back.

If my wife annoys me I can turn the heating off whilst I’m at work and she’s sat on her arse drinking brews...

 

[telectrix]

If my wife annoys me I can turn the heating off whilst I’m at work and she’s sat on her arse drinking brews...

and feeding your tea to the dog.

 

[Ian1981]

What wrong with using a programmer with the times set to the users discretion?

 

[chris murphy]

Hello All,

These `Control your Home`s Heating via the Internet` / Smart Heating Controls will be being installed in much higher numbers from about April this year as they will be probably the `cheapest` way of new Heating Boiler installations complying with the new `Boiler Plus` Energy Efficiency Regulations which are coming into force on the 1st April 2018.

They are one of 4 `options` allowed to be installed to adhere to these new Energy Efficiency Regulations - and will be the `cheapest method` out of the 4 options.

I will not try to explain the new Regulations in detail as it would require even more text than my usual messages - interested Members can just Google - `Boiler Plus Energy Efficiency Regulations April 2018` - or something similar.

Just to explain why the `Smart Heating Controls` will definitely be being installed much more often I will give brief details of the other the `Options` for adhering to the regulations:

The most effective option for perceived `Energy Efficiency` [without being put off by the high installation cost] would be `Flue Gas Heat Recovery` on a Combi Boiler which uses either a built in or added unit through which the Mains water supply runs and is preheated via a `condensate store` so that the Combi heats the incoming Mains water from perhaps 15 - 20 degrees rather than an approximate Winter water temperature of less than 5 degrees [sometimes only 2 degrees].

This would be quite a large saving on the Gas used for Hot water production.

BUT - these units can be expected to add approximately £500 - £800 to the cost of installing a Combi Boiler so the `Payback time` is prohibitive - by the time that the Homeowner has been `paid back` for the high installation cost the Combi could be ready for replacement.

For Combi Boiler installations in Rented Accommodation there would be `no good reason` for the Landlords to pay this additional Installation cost as they would not be saving money on running the Appliance.

`Weather Compensation Controls` are another of the options - however from my experience with some of those they would only be `fully effective` / work correctly in a New Build / Correctly designed Heating system / Correctly insulated property / `Air Tight` [almost] Property - usually not fully effective in an existing / old property.

Another option is `Heating Load Compensation` - this is similar to `Weather Compensation` and can be operated in conjunction with Weather Compensation controls - but again I feel that `Ideal Conditions` need to exist in the property regarding - Correctly designed Heating system / Correctly insulated property / `Air Tight` [almost] Property - usually not fully effective in an existing / old property..

The most inexpensive of the 4 options is to install one of the `Smart Heating Controls` - as some of these have been advertised as costing `£200.00 installed` Members can see why this option will be preferred by most Heating Installers.

So - there will be a big increase in demand for these `Smart Heating Controls` and for Electricians to install them.

I have not yet looked for `Trade prices` / not including Installation for any of the `Smart Heating Controls` - do any Members know the average price ?

I hope that this is of interest to some Members.

Regards,

Chris

 

[RWJ]

What wrong with using a programmer with the times set to the users discretion?

How can the homeowner show off to his mates at work how he can be sat in the works canteen and turn his heating on.

 

[Ian1981]

How can the homeowner show off to his mates at work how he can be sat in the works canteen and turn his heating on.

Very true!

 

[telectrix]

i can't understand how any of this internet control can save energy /money. thermostats and timers do the same job at far less outlay.

 

[Squid]

What wrong with using a programmer with the times set to the users discretion?

Lifestyle changes people work odd hours/long hours go on the rag ends up elsewhere plus its a £150 gadget they flog you ;o))))

 

[Squid]

How can the homeowner show off to his mates at work how he can be sat in the works canteen and turn his heating on.

When I was an apprentice they'd boast about the knockers their wives have and flash polaroids around, I'd rather look at knockers then a 16 degrees on a smart phone.

 

[telectrix]

i suppose it's debateable. knockers versus iphone:

 

[Squid]

i suppose it's debateable. knockers versus iphone:

You stick to yours and I'll stick to mine ;o)))))

(image removed)

 

[davesparks]

Dave, it is only easy as you have taken the time and probably money to forward yourself in installing this product/system.

Nope, it’s a simplified version of a standard heating control circuit, no special training no money put in and the only time I’ve put in to it is 10 minutes to fill in the online form to be a nest pro.

 

[Squid]

Nope, it’s a simplified version of a standard heating control circuit, no special training no money put in and the only time I’ve put in to it is 10 minutes to fill in the online form to be a nest pro.

Maybe you can help me install one in to a 30 year old S Plan system.......

 

[chris murphy]

i can't understand how any of this internet control can save energy /money. thermostats and timers do the same job at far less outlay.

Hello telectrix,

After a lifetime of operating my Heating without needing the facility to turn it On & Off `remotely` You are absolutely correct in my `informed opinion` - I would never need a `Smart Thermostat` for my Home.

However the reason that `Smart Heating Controls are `more efficient` [for some people] than our Programmers and Room Thermostats / Programmable Room Thermostats is:

Because people can alter their Heating controls / Operating times via the Internet means that for example if they find out that no-one will be coming Home on a particular evening until later than usual they can alter the Heating `On` time from for example 17:00 /5pm to 22:00 / 10pm - therefore saving 5 hours of Gas.

Or they could set a lower temperature for early evening which then returned to their optimum setting perhaps an Hour before they expected to return Home.

Those options are the perceived Energy Efficiency benefit of these Smart Heating Controls - and I am sure that they are beneficial / and save Gas / money for some people.

As We know there are plenty of people who like `Gadgets` and the `one-upmanship` of something like being able to control their Heating system from their Smart phone so I am not surprised that there has already been quite a large demand for the Smart Heating Controls.

Regards,

Chris

 

[telectrix]

agree, but ... basic law of physics. if as your exampleshows, joe bloggs remotely turns off his heating for 5 hours. then his house goes cold.then when he does come back, he's going to have to turn it on again to regain the heat loss while it was off.

 

[Leesparkykent]

agree, but ... basic law of physics. if as your exampleshows, joe bloggs remotely turns off his heating for 5 hours. then his house goes cold.then when he does come back, he's going to have to turn it on again to regain the heat loss while it was off.

Yes but you could maintain a lower temp rather than switching it completely off.

 

[telectrix]

so why not set a lower temp.before you go out? we keep ours on 24/7 at a lowish setting, then when we need a bit more heat, it's not going full blast for hours.

 

[Leesparkykent]

so why not set a lower temp.before you go out? we keep ours on 24/7 at a lowish setting, then when we need a bit more heat, it's not going full blast for hours.

That might work ok if you have a standard dile thermostat (even though you couldn't get the house up to temp just before you got home like you could if you had a smart stat). If you had a programmable thermostat that you set different set points throughout the day then it's going to be a right PITA having to reprogramme it when you leave knowing you won't be home at your usuall time. Smart thermostats might not be to everyone's taste or for a family that are set in their ways, always home at the same time, goes to bed at the same time, gets up at the same time, goes out at the weekend at the same time, comes home at the weekend at the same time and so on.....for someone who has a busy lifestyle and not so structured I can definitely see the benefits.

 

[Strima]

I installed my Nest about a year ago and I've noticed I'm using a lot less gas. Not sure whether this is due to the Nest system being more efficient or the additional steps I've taken such as more loft insulation etc. and warmer weather conditions. My gas Usage is lower than previous years.

My running costs haven't increased for gas even though gas prices have gone up so I must be doing something right.

I've also fitted Nest Protect smokes, although they are expensive I do like the connectivity I have with them. For example if I'm out and get smoke warning I can get the house checked on rather than come home to a smouldering mess. The smokes also do CO so a double whammy.

Also I don't have to remember to test them every month.

Just waiting for them to come up with a heat detector for the kitchen...

 

[Leesparkykent]

I installed my Nest about a year ago and I've noticed I'm using a lot less gas. Not sure whether this is due to the Nest system being more efficient or the additional steps I've taken such as more loft insulation etc. and warmer weather conditions. My gas Usage is lower than previous years.

My running costs haven't increased for gas even though gas prices have gone up so I must be doing something right.

I've also fitted Nest Protect smokes, although they are expensive I do like the connectivity I have with them. For example if I'm out and get smoke warning I can get the house checked on rather than come home to a smouldering mess. The smokes also do CO so a double whammy.

Also I don't have to remember to test them every month.

Just waiting for them to come up with a heat detector for the kitchen...

I'm doing a newbuild that's high end. He's going crazy on all the smart home gadgets so was going to put nest smokes in. I was disappointed to find they didn't do a heat detector. I'm putting in a texecom premier elite alarm so installing additional smokes and a heat that connect to the panel. I'm putting in a smartcom communicator so can be accessed/notified via the cloud etc.

 

[chris murphy]

agree, but ... basic law of physics. if as your exampleshows, joe bloggs remotely turns off his heating for 5 hours. then his house goes cold.then when he does come back, he's going to have to turn it on again to regain the heat loss while it was off.

Hello again telectrix,

I was not trying to be patronising or trying to irritate You when I wrote my previous reply - just in case You have taken it that way.

I described an example where the Heating `On` time was altered to be 5 Hours later than the `normal evening On time` - not turned off until the Householder actually comes in.

Depending upon the external temperature / `Heat Up Period` - lets guess an Hour - instead of the Home being at the set temperature by 18:00 / 6pm it would be up to the set temperature by 23:00 / 11pm for in this example when the Householder / Family came home later than usually.

And I did mention that they could set a lower temperature for the early evening which then reverted to their optimum setting perhaps an hour before they returned Home.

Most people don`t heat their Home`s during the day if they are all out at work / school etc.

Although when the British Standards etc. for Domestic Central Heating Heat Loss Calculations were first formulated in the 1960`s Heating systems were designed to be On for 24 Hours a day regulated only by the Boiler Thermostat.

As Gas was perceived to be very inexpensive in the 1960`s / 1970`s that method of operating a Home`s Central Heating was not seen as `expensive to run`.

The way that You are operating your Heating system obviously suits your Family and lifestyle so that is the `correct way` for You.

I don`t usually operate my Heating like that - I have a Programmer and a Programmable Room Thermostat controlling my system - I have various temperatures set for various time periods on the Thermostat.

However in really cold weather / external temperatures I would have my Heating On 24 hours with lower temperatures set for the periods when we are out and for the overnight hours.

Regards,

Chris

 

[Strima]

I'm doing a newbuild that's high end. He's going crazy on all the smart home gadgets so was going to put nest smokes in. I was disappointed to find they didn't do a heat detector. I'm putting in a texecom premier elite alarm so installing additional smokes and a heat that connect to the panel. I'm putting in a smartcom communicator so can be accessed/notified via the cloud etc.

I’m getting my kitchen extended in a few months so I could get away with a smoke in that area. However I would prefer a heat.

I’m surprised they haven’t manufacture one yet.

 

[telectrix]

However in really cold weather / external temperatures I would have my Heating On 24 hours with lower temperatures set for the periods when we are out and for the overnight hours.

that's what we do. seems to be the most economical way. and no, i don't think your post was patronising. it was informative. .

 

[static zap]

I’m surprised they haven’t manufacture one yet.

Not looked any deeper , but detecting difference between , a chip pan igniting.
And opening oven door on hi ,doing a large tray of roast spuds - feels intense to face !

 

[davesparks]

agree, but ... basic law of physics. if as your exampleshows, joe bloggs remotely turns off his heating for 5 hours. then his house goes cold.then when he does come back, he's going to have to turn it on again to regain the heat loss while it was off.

But he doesn’t turn it off, he turns it down, or the system turns it down for him

 

[Sooby2]

Maybe you can help me install one in to a 30 year old S Plan system.......

I've just had one put in along with a new boiler. The instructions in the Nest box show the wiring for S and Y plans and OpenTherm. It just becomes a matter of identifying what cable goes where - me and the gas installer spent a merry afternoon with his Megger and a wander lead.

And I can now turn the central heating down when the wife goes out, leaving it on full blast and I'm out and about.

 

[Squid]

I've just had one put in along with a new boiler. The instructions in the Nest box show the wiring for S and Y plans and OpenTherm. It just becomes a matter of identifying what cable goes where - me and the gas installer spent a merry afternoon with his Megger and a wander lead.

And I can now turn the central heating down when the wife goes out, leaving it on full blast and I'm out and about.

The sensible side of me is telling me don't mess with it in winter as if you screw up then there is no hot water or heating and you get cold ;o))

2 Valves, hot water tank stat, pump, controller for water, programable room start, link to system boiler and power, what can go wrong lol.

 

[Octopus]

i can't understand how any of this internet control can save energy /money. thermostats and timers do the same job at far less outlay.

I installed a Salus IT 500 when we refurbished our house over 4 years ago ....

The benefits of such a system to me is that on each day there are 6 timed points where the heating can be set - so we run our heating on the basis that during the week nobody is at home. The misses is a midwife doing all sorts of unpredictable shifts - so she turns it up when it suits her.

If you go out for the day at the weekend you can set "eco" mode and this uses the lowest temperature in the settings you have until you revert to normal timer mode.

If you are out during the winter you can turn the heating up before you get home and hey presto when you get home the temperature is what you want...

I can also turn it down if the misses turns it up too much!

So in my opinion these are worth having but anyone buying them needs to understand that generally they are not an easy like for like swap.

PS the "holiday" mode allows you to set the date and time for the period to start and the same for the end .......

 

[Sooby2]

The sensible side of me is telling me don't mess with it in winter as if you screw up then there is no hot water or heating and you get cold ;o))

2 Valves, hot water tank stat, pump, controller for water, programable room start, link to system boiler and power, what can go wrong lol.

Well it was one 3-way valve, pump, tank thermostat. The Nest thermostat talks wirelessly to the hub, which we put in the airing cupboard where everything bar the boiler was. Just a matter of using one of the existing cables to link to the boiler.

And the gas installer is an ex-British gas installer, so if he can't get it right (and it's worked perfectly from the off) then I don't know who would.

 

[Squid]

Ah too good for BG I see..........