Level of qualification needed to obtain licence?

[D Skelton]

I am genuinely interested to see what others thoughts are on this matter.

Hypothetically speaking, the government disbands the current scam schemes and puts out to tender a GasSafe style system for electricians. Costs are lower, standards maintained, enforcement carried out blah blah blah.... Lets just say the new system is hunky dory for arguments sake. The main difference however is that in order to practise as an electrician in the UK, you now legally have to hold an electricians licence. The word 'electrician' is also protected by statute from fraudulent and unlawful use and only useable by licence holders.

I want to know what qualifications you guys think an individual would have to posses in order to gain a licence and be legally allowed to call themselves an electrician.

I want to make it clear that I'm not into this becoming a Electrical Trainee bashing thread, I am genuinely interested as to be honest, I am currently on the fence and would like to hear your views.

 

[J S]

Like I mentioned before, you can't take the SVQ3 Electrical Installation course in Scotland unless you are employed as an apprentice, every college says the same. The course lasts 3 or 4 years depending on how the candidate progresses. Heres a breakdown of each year:


The Apprentice Training Scheme is carried out in 3 Stages.
[TABLE="width: 90%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: bodysubtitles, width: 100"]Stage 1[/TD]
[TD="class: body"]This consists of 17 weeks of block release at a local college. The typical pattern
commences in August with 5 weeks at college, and a further 3 blocks of 4 weeks before July the following year. Site experience is gained in between the college attendance.

Skills learned will be both practical and theoretical, e.g. health and safety, wiring systems, wiring enclosures, installation regulations, etc.


[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: bodysubtitles"]Stage 2[/TD]
[TD="class: body"]This consists of 11 weeks of block release, again at a local college, with site experience gained in between the college attendance.

Skills learned will be both practical and theoretical, e.g. cable selection, motors, Electrical Installation projects, etc.


[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: bodysubtitles"]Stage 3[/TD]
[TD="class: body"]This consists of site experience with one week at college.

Skills learned, e.g. assessment of safe working practices, safe isolation, inspection, testing and commissioning of electrical installations.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Zebra Stripe]

So be carefull what you wish for cos the £3000 scheme maybe what you get

 

[D Skelton]

I have no NVQ3 and thats exactly how I would have done it........If I could be bothered, but to be honest I dont want an NVQ

Or is it because you would struggle to complete one?

If someone offered you the opportunity to do one cheap as chips are you honestly telling me you would turn it down?

 

[D Skelton]

So be carefull what you wish for cos the £3000 scheme maybe what you get

Never. I'll bet my house on it!

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Or is it because you would struggle to complete one?

If someone offered you the opportunity to do one cheap as chips are you honestly telling me you would turn it down?

Well probably not because I like to get new quals, but I looked into the one advertised on here for £600 and thought, no, dont want it would rather spend the money elsewhere. Would I struggle to pass it? I hope not because if that were the case perhaps I should be doing something else for a living.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Never. I'll bet my house on it!

Your most likely right, and to be honest please dont stop your passionate fight for what you feel is right, I agree with most of your points by the way. Im now going to watch some breaking bad with me tea which by now is probably burnt to a crisp.

 

[D Skelton]

Im now going to watch some breaking bad

Now this is something we can agree on 100%!!! lol

 

[Guest55]

todays nvq L3 isnt worth a crap if were being honest but......

it does allow those who are not employed as cards-in apprentices to accumilate proof of on-site skills development , so it does deserve some credit.

And the JIB have decided , rightly or wrongly , that the nvq is now their benchmark requirement to full grade and are not going to budge an inch so were stuck with it.

although it is very unfortunate that their scottish counterparts arent recognising the different paths into the industry but thats for the scots to sort out themselves thus isnt a country wide issue.

 

[KAS1]

Can't wait or the breaking bad spin off series with Soul as the main man, should be out soon I hope

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I agree, it should be posted on a TAX forum, point taken. I wont mention TAX again. Also, I think just to add to this, all the bull should stop as well as its just making people cringe.

yep...

 

[Guest55]

LOLZ !!!

just looking through the poll results shows overwhelming votes in favour of the higher skills requirement of the nvq + am2 needed for a sparks "licence"...........

just like the JIBs requirements then ;-D

its nice to come full circle again lol

 

[Guest569]

yep...

Yeah I agree but its your man there that keeps taking pops.

 

[DPG]

Yeah I agree but its your man there that keeps taking pops.

Here we go again Which first, 30 pages or a 'thread closed' ??? Daz

 

[Guest569]

Here we go again Which first, 30 pages or a 'thread closed' ??? Daz

lol its true though !

 

[overskilled]

As the server melts...

 

[thekingiam]

hmm i don't think its fair for older sparks like me to be told they need to do nvq3 as in go back to an aprentiship working under someone. Even though the gate has been open for too long for any cowboys to get recognised i would rather an option too show proof of trading for minimum years before a certain date.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well....as i sees it the government wont go there when it comes to even contemplating a Electrical Trainee gas man.....

too much comeback (although i know now of several kev`s that actively carry out gas work in folks`s properties......at least they do a drop test)...

so......

 

[Engineer54]

hmm i don't think its fair for older sparks like me to be told they need to do nvq3 as in go back to an aprentiship working under someone. Even though the gate has been open for too long for any cowboys to get recognised i would rather an option too show proof of trading for minimum years before a certain date.

Depends when you completed your time. If an AM2 or NVQ wasn't needed at that time then there should be no need for holding them now!! The new core qualification is a very different animal to the Lv3 2360 that i took. In those days you finished your time having the appropriate trade skills gained during the apprenticeship, there were no AM2 or NVQs . Alas that's not generally the case with today's students, many of which will have little to no work skills/experience, hence the need for Lv 3 AM2/NVQ's....

 

[Engineer54]

Perhaps the JIB should introduce another grade, at the bottom end of the grading system but above a labour say a domestic electrician lo

No bloody way, ...you are then back on the slippery path of deskilling. It leaves the door wide open for others to want to start lowering all the grades to suit their own purposes....

The present grades have been around a long time now, and has on the whole, served the industry well.

 

[MDJ]

Yeah I agree but its your man there that keeps taking pops.

Whats the matter with you?????? we have tried to stop this dick size competition but you keep posting about it, Let me give you some advice=Stop it!!!!!!!!

 

[MDJ]

No bloody way, ...you are then back on the slippery path of deskilling. It leaves the door wide open for others to want to start lowering all the grades to suit their own purposes....

The present grades have been around a long time now, and has on the whole, served the industry well.

By the look of the poll results so far the vast majority agree with you as well.

 

[guest119]

Re dick size, I met a prostitute that charges by the inch and I couldnt afford her!

PM me for her number :tounge_smile:

Boydy

 

[MDJ]

I expect Uk sparks and JRC will not be able to afford her, they have been compairing the size of their man hoods in this and other threads for a couple of weeks now LMAO, I expect a competition result soon as they may well meet up to see who has won.

 

[guest119]

Its about time this thread was trashed now.
All been said over and over.

Boydy

 

[longboat]

UkSparks - You know whats funny ? Im a drummer too, I had a 7 piece yamaha maple custom when I was 19 kitted out with Zildjian Ks and As. I sold it and only recently got back into it. My latest purchase is a nice little Gretch Catalina Club Jazz kit. Im probably a better drummer than you too

If your going to make comments about me then choose to ignore my responses please don't post in the first place.

Percussion eh, i am surprised.
Thought you were a brass man.

 

[longboat]

With the greatest of respect and in my opinion, you have to be living in some fantasy world if you think that suddenly thousands of people must have their right to trade restricted, or prohibited, and ultimately affect their ability to earn a living, pay bills & taxes over night, for no other reason than they failed to do an apprenticeship or gain a completely useless NVQ made up of photos of them standing next to a piece of conduit or holding a broom with a dust mask on. No chance, it isn’t going to happen, not right now and not in the future. There is no profit in that for the parasites, unless it was a tiered system with ultimately very expensive membership and more new add on “dumbed down” qualifications.

So one day you are deemed competent through Government backed schemes and the next day incompetent, unless you pay thousands of pounds for a new course and exam with multiple answer questions, no doubt focusing on how to read a book or use an index?

A “license to trade” is a long way off in this divided, over complicated, tangled up in red tape, parasite infested trade. A trade, which is at present and always has been, and always will be, policed with an insipid and ridiculously toothless non-entity, even if the work is dangerously unsafe.

Is it not the standard of education that should be targeted? The multi answer C&G land questions, which bear little resemblance to real situations? The Not very qualified 3, focusing on your ability to photograph yourself, whilst conducting an insulation resistance test? Or the wonderful test board with its real “life sized” circuits to test.

In my opinion, its the “dumbing down” of the qualifications that’s the problem. The forever changing numbers of C&G quals don’t help either. If you change the system to licensing, it just moves the goal posts, but the bad training and dumb down exams just change their names (& prices) and the incompetent scheme members become incompetent license holders, and the whole thing goes round and round making loads of money and the parasites thrive.

But, hey its not going to happen because we live in a dumb down society, where xfactor is more important than landing on mars, ****enders is more interesting than the Bush families relationship with the Bin Laden’s and reading has been replaced with the “must have it now” generation of “why read when you can watch the movie” people.

So why does it matter if it takes 3 years, 5 weeks or you just take the exam, if the qualification/exam was the same, requiring in-depth answers in each case? Change the education part and the rest will follow. There is no need for a License, just some good old fashioned real education, bring back C&G 2360 and C&G 2391, and C&G 2400 , with add on’s if required. Experience, well that’s a different kettle of worms.

If you worked mainly in the domestic sector that is exactly what happened when part pish became legislation.
It's the scam providers and 'training' centres that will loose out if proper standards were introduced and well...... money talks, so i think were stuck with the situation.

 

[Dan]

I'm just bumping some of the older threads in the general electrical forum that had a lot of replies. They might not be current topics, if they're not, just ignore them and they'll soon drop off the list. If you DO wish to add a reply and get the conversation going again, feel free to do so. Your input might help somebody else in the future.

 

[Dan]

I'm just bumping some threads in the Electrical Forum, don't mind me while I do this, you don't have to respond to them. Although if they are still current topics, and you do wish to reply, you're welcome to. Keep the thread on-topic and make sure you stick to the forum rules though.